This is why you should be reading my comments section, amidst the noise there’s some great stuff like this one from BT
This has been a pretty spirited discussion. Some of it has focused on the First Amendment, as did a lot of the discussion on Luke Is Back and statements by James Deen and others about condoms.
When it comes to the actual issue of porn, almost all of that discussion is misguided even if it is passionate.
Now, I wrote something like that on Luke Is Back a year or so ago and got flamed, including a response by the Colonel – or whoever that guy was – who said he would try to explain things simply to me but I was probably too stupid to even understand so why bother.
Now, that guy may have had a point – my wife says I’m probably too stupid to understand on a daily basis, and she knows me better than anyone but my mom (who likes her more than me).
So, don’t take my word for it. Read the actual lawsuit that Vivid argued in court and then read the opinion of the federal judge who found in favor of the law.
If you read the suit filed by Vivid, Kayden and some guy who didn’t even know why his name was in there, what you’ll find is that they barely mentioned the First Amendment.
The heart of the Vivid suit was an economic argument. Vivid said the consumer does not want to watch porn with condoms and its business will be adversely affected.
Kayden said that she films scenes for her website in her home, which is a jurisdiction covered by the law. If enforced, she would have to rent locations in areas that are unaffected by the law to shoot condomless porn and she couldn’t afford to do that. She’d be out of business. So much for Kayden making so much money, she can retire from porn and never make a day in her life – a location fee is going to break her bank.
The guy said that fewer scenes would be shot, hence, he would have fewer opportunities to work and would have to get a real job to pay his rent.
As to the judge’s opinion, he said that porn mentioned the First Amendment in its argument, it was highly unlikely to prevail on that argument, so lets move on. I just gave more attention to the First Amendment and the condom issue than a federal judge. Now, that may not seem like much to you or I as a laymen, but if you talk to lawyers, they will tell you should read a judge’s casual dismissal of something as if it was written in all caps, underlined, bolded, highlighted in yellow, and delivered at the top of his lungs. He’s telling you that you just wasted his time.
Finally, the judge rejected most of porn’s economic arguments. The one bone he threw to porn was economic.
So, again, to anyone who wants to shout about the First Amendment and regulation of porn, read what your industry actually argued in court and what a judge has actually said. At least when it comes to condoms, the industry did not make much of a First Amendment argument in court and the judge threw it out the window.
Now, when it comes to licensing talent, porn cannot make the same weak economic argument it made about condoms. Talent and not the porn industry will probably pay the license fee. And, unless government does something stupid like say you have to pay a $10,000 fee to be porn talent, it will only be a hurdle to 18 year old high school drop outs – who can make back the $250 or $500 fee with their first onfilm blow job. The Lisa Anns of the world may grumble, but they’ll pay it easily.
Second, there’s been some discussion here about art, prior restraint, etc. Here’s the thing: The First Amendment does not guarantee freedom of art. Again, don’t take my word for it. Google the First Amendment.
It protects the free expression of religion, the right of the press to operate without government interference and the right of individual speech. The word art does not appear in the amendment.
I could be wrong, but I believe that is probably because of the old phrase: Art is in the eye of the beholder. The government cannot say what is and what isn’t art. So again, the First Amendment does not define art or protect art. It protects speech.
Now, porn cannot argue that it is a religion – I may like a big booty, but Jules Jordan’s Ass Worship is not one of the sacraments.
Likewise, in the age of the Internet, bloggers and special interest websites, the law has been challenged to define just what is the press and who is a reporter. It has struggled with that. But, the general test has been whether a reporter or organization is reporting or opining on the important events of the day. I believe AdultFYI, Mike South, AVN and other industry sites would find freedom of the press protection under the law. Love them or hate them, they have both reported and commented on the events of the day. The condom, OSHA and now licensing debates are great examples.
And by the way, the government is allowed to issue press passes that restrict who can perform their reporting duties at the White House or in Congress. It can’t stop me from launching a blog to write opinions about the Congress or the President, but it can prevent me from getting a press pass. That is similar to a license.
That leaves speech. Now, we have pretty broad liberties when it comes to personal speech. We can say or write just about anything and hold about any opinion we want as long as its not injurious to the public. You can’t yell fire in a crowded movie theater and you can’t put up posters that claim your neighbor is a meth-addicted child molester who eats cats just because he broke your snowblower.
Commercial speech, on the other hand, is highly regulated. The FCC can tell CBS that a character in a sitcom can’t say fuck on network TV or that a singer can’t flash her breasts during the Super Bowl. Someone mentioned prior restraint – that means that if the FCC knows CBS is going to say fuck on TV it can’t prohibit CBS from broadcasting the show. But it sure as hell can fine CBS after the fact. The FTC exists to review advertising and determine whether a company lied to the public. The FTC cannot file criminal charges, but it sure as hell can fine a company that lied to the public. Commercial speech is regulated like crazy.
So, where does art fall. Since we can’t define art, the performing arts fall under the umbrella of protected speech. However, when speech intersects with the interests of the public or is done for a commercial purpose, the government has a right to regulate how the speech is delivered. That right has been upheld over and over again.
Stripping is a great example. Stripping has been upheld by the Supreme Court as protected speech. A man or a woman has a constitutionally-protected right to take their clothes off to express a message. It’s in the law. You can look it up.
The government is allowed to regulate where that stripping takes place. In most communities, a stripper couldn’t do her act on the town square at high noon while her suitcase pimp passed around the hat as if she was a folk singer.
The government has a right to pass zoning laws that limit where adult entertainment businesses can be located. It can’t do that retroactively – that’s prior restraint. In other words, if I open a strip club next to a church, city council can’t retroactively pass a zoning law that prohibits locating a strip club next to a church. But it can do it proactively so that the next guy can’t do it.
The government has a right to control the stripper’s message by restricting how much clothing he or she can remove during their performance or whether they must wear pasties and/or a G-string. And remember, the Supreme Court has said that jurisdictions can restrict the sale of pornography and sex toys in their communities if they want.
Finally, the government has the right to license strippers – the right to regulate who can express their message in public by taking off their clothes.
Making porn is no different than running a strip club in the eyes of the law.
Now, someone will make the argument that a movie is different from stripping. The First Amendment does not – and government cannot – make a distinction that one form of protected speech deserves more protection than another form of protected speech. If that were the case, Rand Paul would have the right to stand on my town square and spew all kinds of stupid shit because he’s a US Senator, but the state could say I can’t say the exact same words because I’m an idiot.
Similarly, the state cannot say that Stripper A can get a license because she’s got a great body and is a really good dancer but Stripper B can’t get a license because she’s old, ugly and pretty clumsy. Stripper A’s message is given the same level of protection as Stipper B.
Protected speech is protected speech. Francis Ford Coppola gets the same protections as Bugs Bunny. At the same time, Francis Ford Coppola faces the same regulations as Bugs Bunny. He doesn’t get a pass on his sets because he’s a genius and the other guy is making a cartoon for kids.
I have no idea whether the state of California or Los Angeles County has any interest in licensing porn talent. My theory has always been that porn gets a pass because it is distasteful. No professional wants to be on jizz patrol. So long as porn did its business behind closed doors and there were no dead bodies on the sets, no one wanted to know about it.
Porn is getting the attention it is getting now because porn is pushing the envelope, people are getting hurt, and people are getting infected.
California may end up with no interest in licensing porn, despite the sorry state of its finances. But as long as it doesn’t use the license as a way to regulate content, there’s no First Amendment reason why it can’t do so. In other words, the state can’t issue a license that says: Lisa Ann, you can give a blow job, but you can’t have vaginal sex based on this license. That’s content.
Again, the First Amendment talk that was spouted by talent like James Deen sounds great and is fun to argue about. But, read the lawsuit filed by Vivid and read the judge’s decision. Porn made an economic argument. Not a First Amendment argument.
87 Responses
A Legal Analysis Of Licensing Porn Performers http://t.co/4RzVtUhvET
George Spell liked this on Facebook.
It will be interesting to see how the industry, FSC, producers, react to this. Of course their first reaction will be to fight this, they dont know any better than to go with their first kneejerk reaction. But then some may realize that the licensing of performers may alleviate some of the legal resonsibilities of the producer.
Most impotant, this may be a big step towards classifying performers as independent contractors, and if producers see this possibility then you can bet they will suppport it.
It is also going to be very interesting when Logan Pierce gets asked questions about that interview he did where he said he doesnt know why he is part of the lawsuit.
Jay Mckenney liked this on Facebook.
Ain’t this a kick in the head…neighbor is a lawyer, left a msg with his wife to have him call me re FSC that’s it, didn’t explain just said will you have him call me re FSC..lol he called PROMPTLY in a panic…he has conflict of interest …and please don’t tell my wife what they do, I’m doing probono for a church right now too….he heard from the guy I talked to yesterday and is afraid I’ll tell his wife porn pays part of her mortgage 🙂 life in suburbia is great!
I think use First Amendment argument for ever thing in porn indusrty been so play out point no longer gone be fig leaf indusrty can use any more behind.
We all seem to forget when throwing out these comments that porn is national and/or international. Unlike a strip club or a stripper who, say resides in atlanta, then georgia passes some crap restricting strip club operations, its mighty tough for the strip club to pick up their building and move. Porn, however, can be shot anywhere in the US or abroad, so as soon as CA passes the tough restriction, POOF, everyone starts shooting in Vegas or Miami. Then NV or FL do the same and everyone shoots in mexico or czech. The extra variable is porn can be shot anywhere, edited anywhere and uploaded to the internet anywhere. So there will always be a way to skirt these restrictions. What all these ppl are actually fighting is their right to stay in CA and work freely. The big companies will obviously grumble the most cause its the hardest for them to pick up and move but I have no doubt that if the right restriction is passed, they’ll b gone. Me, I can move anywhere, CA is about as far from SC as it comes, so I’ll go wherever the work is.
@Charity
“Porn, however, can be shot anywhere in the US or abroad, so as soon as CA passes the tough restriction, POOF, everyone starts shooting in Vegas or Miami. Then NV or FL do the same and everyone shoots in mexico or czech.”
NO IT CANNOT.
It is only legal in CA and NH. Wasn’t it previously illegal in the czech republic? I’m sure they’re going to be extremely lenient on pornographers, right?
I’m still waiting for someone to make the suggestion of buying a cruise ship, calling it the Love Boat, and shooting all porn 15 miles out into the ocean.
@Charity
I have no illusion that porn is a CA industry. It was funny to me that 1000 miles from DC metro and 2500 from CA my neighbor represents(ed) the FSC. If I has my way there would be legal filming in all 50 states, despite the fact that I choose not to buy the product…it employs tons of people…those people spend their money the way they want and the more the merrier.
The big companies are grumbling all the way to the bank with their STAKEHOLDER affiliation deals as part of the FSC…look into it. I’m asking you specifically because of the time and energy you put into the power point stuff you put together, it’s clear you want performers to be safe…go find out for real why that has been so hard to achieve.
@Charity
I have no illusion that porn is a CA industry. It was funny to me that 1000 miles from DC metro and 2500 from CA my neighbor represents(ed) the FSC. If I has my way there would be legal filming in all 50 states, despite the fact that I choose not to buy the product…it employs tons of people…those people spend their money the way they want and the more the merrier.
The big companies are grumbling all the way to the bank with their STAKEHOLDER affiliation deals as part of the FSC…look into it. I’m asking you specifically because of the time and energy you put into the power point stuff you put together, it’s clear you want performers to be safe…go find out for real why that has been so hard to achieve.
Lol, I LOVE IT! Count me in! And I thought my idea of a big RV or a big rig trailer that could be moved to any state quickly was good.
@charity
The RV wouldn’t be legal unless you did it in two states. Outside of US waters may work, but there may be legal aspects attached to transporting the performers to engage in a sexual act.
Is private space exploration getting cheaper yet? Seeing a money shot floating in zero gravity could move product.
“Again, the First Amendment talk that was spouted by talent like James Deen sounds great and is fun to argue about. But, read the lawsuit filed by Vivid and read the judge’s decision. Porn made an economic argument. Not a First Amendment argument.”
I think this is where it’s wrong to draw conclusions, because the question that was asked was (a) the wrong question, and (b) asked by the wrong people.
Licensing is a standard part of any business situation, from occupation permits and any city or county business registration, it’s all pretty normal. If you try to figure things out in that context, you will almost always find licensing as legal.
However, taken from the other side of the coin, the performer, the concept of licensing has much more of a negative spin and application, and one that can force them to choose not to register, which in turn chills their free speech.
Where it really comes to a point isn’t in the studios or on the sets of Vivid, it comes to a point where an amateur girl running her own site would have to ask her swinger friends to “register” as pornstars before she could have them on her site in a gangbang. Since most “civilians” wouldn’t want to be branded pornstars, they would no longer participate. Free speech denied.
You have to imagine that a pornstar license would be one of those documents that would rattle around government computers for decades only to pop up 40 years later when someone is trying to run for Mayor or whatever, and suddenly it’s “this girl was a porn star!”, and their mayoral run ends there.
Faced with the choice, people in the amateur / swinger world would likely abstain, staying away from the camera to avoid having to officially admit their acts.
So in the end, looking at the Vivid suit is misleading because it only represents one side of a situation, one that has more sides than a stop sign!
I will read this in detail later but I have one comment to leave now.
Those with a Libertarian bent will cry “free speech” but we all live in a world where reasonable regulation of industry is almost universally accepted. Get used to it.
Some more corrections:
“Commercial speech, on the other hand, is highly regulated. The FCC can tell CBS that a character in a sitcom can’t say fuck on network TV or that a singer can’t flash her breasts during the Super Bowl.”
This is true, but at the same time this does not apply to HBO as an example. Why? Because the FCC can only regulate the public airwaves, they do not, cannot, and will not regulate cable channels or other private distributions. Otherwise, the FCC could regulate streaming porn, and make it so your characters could not be naked or say “fuck”.
More: “the government is allowed to issue press passes that restrict who can perform their reporting duties at the White House or in Congress.”
Yes they can. However, they cannot stop anyone in the public viewing gallery making notes about the session, or getting access to the public record of the events and writing about it. Their limit is to restrict access to certain areas or events, but they cannot stop the press – or any citizen who wants to write about the actions of congress or the President.
See, the problem here is in all cases, the cited restriction isn’t on the rights, it’s on closed areas or restricted, access or use limited areas. In order to get porn licensing to that level, they would have to effectively rule that a person’s body is a “work area” subject to restriction and licensing. It’s unlikely that SCOTUS would ever allow that argument to fly.
The last porn indusrty company try shooting porn in Arizona where arrest prosecute for CharityBangs.
PHOENIX – Authorities said a Valley business,which fronted itself as a self-serve pornography studio, was really operating as a prostitution house and arrested eight people in a Thursday evening raid of the business.
Phoenix police Sgt. Steve Martos said eight people were arrested, including 52-year-old owner William James Hartwell, in a prostitution ring located near 40th Street and University Drive in Phoenix.
Martos said the operation was part of a six-month investigation in partnership with the FBI.
Police raided the business Thursday evening around 7 p.m. after obtaining a search warrant.
The company reportedly advertised itself online as a self-porn business in which customers would pay to star in their own adult film.
Martos said customers would pay $140 per half hour to have sex with a female employee.
Of the eight people arrested, six were women, one a male, and one person who has not yet been identified. Reportedly one woman was nine months pregnant.
The eight people arrested include: Hartwell, 24-year-old Michelle Marchetti, 20-year-old Shelby Dunn, 23-year-old Tammie Torres, 22-year-old Adrianna Aguirre, 20-year-old Danielle Bell and 25-year-old Amber Mackenzie. One other person was arrested, but police are waiting to confirm the person’s name and identity.
At the time of the raid, women were escorted out of the beige-colored building. Some were seen wearing leopard-print pajamas and another woman was several months pregnant.
Investigators said Hartwell told an arresting officer that he was not surprised police showed up at his company’s door. “We’ve been expecting you guys for a long time,” Hartwell said, as he was escorted to a police care. “We run a safe, legal business.”
Harwell and Marchetti were both arrested on charges of illegal control of an enterprise, conspiracy to control an enterprise, pandering, operating a house of prostitution, and receiving earnings of a prostitute.
The others were all booked for participating in an illegal enterprise.
My only point on my blog look all the charges that where file againt these people from local police buy FBI . So think if porn gone want run mess like above think again. Remind CharityBangs real gone shoot porn outside USA where STD happen higher rate than USA?? Where no testing for STD. Where Hiv higher than USA. Most eurp right now make porn againt law in few place if shot hardcorp porn there they catch punishable offence. Does any one remember when alot male porn stars from USA going down to south america shot porn that all came end when male porn star Darren James got hiv in Rio de Janeiro. Come of think CharityBangs 2012 there was Syphilis Outbreak eurp stop porn from being made untill all clear up. So run way to some othere counrty or some other state gone make issue better. Buy way cheap hire porn star does work in there owen counrty that it would be import them in some other counrty. If porn leaves counrty than many US porn stars would right out of job.
OK, speaking as a consumer who actually purchases porn, I will never pay a dime to watch porn with condoms. I will just go back to free sites, and watch old scenes. You all spew on about how consumers won’t care, bullshit. Scene has a condom, I won’t watch, and I am far from alone in that regard. Mike I like to read what you write about, but you are way out of touch with the consumers. Way way out of touch.
@rawalex –
Nice counterpoints. I can’t discuss all of them at the moment, but wouldn’t your statement below also apply to strippers (who obviously use their bodies)? If so, the laws are already on the books concerning strippers… they’re licensed and regulated.
“In order to get porn licensing to that level, they would have to effectively rule that a person’s body is a “work area” subject to restriction and licensing. It’s unlikely that SCOTUS would ever allow that argument to fly.”
@bigdaddy
Would you pay more to know the condom free porn you watch had performers who tested clean for ALL infectious STI?
@bigdaddy…… Im sure Mike`s aware that there are people out there that care more about their pleasure then others health and safety….. Sad but true…… But I think the general population would make the adjustment…….like ”think green”…..”think clean”….
@bigdaddy…..from a phycological point of view I wonder what It is with a condom that turns you off so….is it because the penis doesn’t look as sexy?
So bigdaddyrobbiek one people does mind if porn star does get pay check long as you can watch porn for free way your like it. You do not care if porn indusrty safe long as can jerk off favrita star many times like as you watch your favrita porn star put her health life on line long you do not have pay do so . These kind people drive porn indusrty in to extinction. Dude enjoy all porn movies watch free becuase biggiest reason most porn actor no longer make porn movies any more no one pay them get STD that not allow them work in porn inusdrty any more.
…..
I think the cruise ship idea is actually a REALLY good idea!!! I’m not sure how waters/international waters work from a legality viewpoint, but it would definitely be fun!! 😀
Although, I do think we’re discussing the wrong subject here. The fact is you can shoot porn ANYWHERE!!!!! Two random people can fuck in the park and film it. The “shooting” of porn isn’t necessarily the main problem here… If the entire state of CA were to go condom mandatory then you could still “technically” shoot condom free porn in the state of CA in an abandoned building somewhere…
They can’t physically STOP you from shooting porn unless the police know where you are or you decide to shoot in public or something.
The main issues are on the production and, ultimately, the distribution side. Also, dealing with licensing and permit processes.
If a company shoots a porno and then tries to distribute it or market it without condoms, then THAT will be where they would get hit. You can’t really hide distribution and marketing of a film unless you just release it on the black market in order to avoid fines and penalties. But, the problem with that is you lose the advantage of public marketing. If you can’t market a movie you just made then who would even know about it to actually buy it?
The porn industry isn’t fighting this hard because they don’t really feel like leaving CA. They’re fighting so hard because they know that if CA becomes condom mandatory it makes it 10x easier for the feds. to control distribution.
At the present time, if CA goes condom mandatory then every single porn released in the US without condoms would HAVE to be shot in NH to remain legal.
If NH passed a state-wide condom law then “technically” it would be illegal to shoot condom free porn anywhere in the entire country.
Let’s just say CA and NH had their laws overturned and it became illegal to shoot pornography in both states.. then “technically” the shooting and distribution of porn would be illegal throughout the entire country since the ONLY states where it was LEGAL to shoot porn are either CA or NH.
You then couldn’t shoot porn in Vegas and then “claim” it was shot in CA.
The only solution would be to take the shooting of pornography case to another state and challenge their legal system on the legalities of shooting porn within the state. Many states have no laws regarding pornography and the reason the industry is refusing to just pick up and move to another state is because the industry knows there is NO WAY possible another state would legally allow condom free porn to be shot in their state with all of the current OSHA laws, etc. Plus, some states already legally view the making of porn and prostitution as the same so those states are definitely out.
If CA and NH both passed adult film permit processes then every single porn scene or movie distributed for profit in the US would require a permit on file in order to distribute. And, in order to obtain that permit you would have to follow strict rules and regulations from both the state and OSHA.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is fairly accurate?
@bigdaddy
I agree with you on this. I’ve been in a long term monogamous relationship for 3 years and I still use condoms regularly. When I watch porn I want it to be fantasy and unless I search it out what is being offered to me isn’t always my bag and really don’t take the time to search anything like that out. Unless of course someone tells me about a specific movie. It isn’t like Hollywood. I will know about all Hollywood releases because I cannot avoid advertisements. I’m only in that position with porn if I turn off my ad blockers and actively search out titles or browse sites.
That means a lot of companies may go.
Condoms would make it harder for me to find something that appears to me as though it is a normal relationship. Seeing a movie about a honeymoon where they are using condoms would ruin my reason for buying that film. That is definitely the time I wouldn’t want to use one. What I want isn’t as important as the safety of others. I would have to be a very self-centered person to want others to do what I wouldn’t for my enjoyment.
The right director can shoot it as though you cannot see the condom. Even if you think you may see it, unless you are searching for it you won’t notice it. The point and shoot kinds of porn wouldn’t be able to do this unless they stepped up their game. If that is your style then you may be left out and I do think a lot of porn fans will feel left out. A lot of porn fans don’t pay so they don’t matter, do they? You as a paying fan matter which sucks because the product you paid for may no longer be offered. If great directors shot the point and shoot films they could create a good looking point and shoot film. I bet the price wouldn’t be the same. That’s going to cost money and will those fans pay that much for that kind of film? Time will tell.
Look at history though. Porn always finds a way. It may not be in their best interests, but they do.
Once people start paying again I can see companies finding ways to give paying fans what they want. It is going to take some time.
@rawalex –
But, the FCC CAN regulate HBO.
It’s the same reason you won’t see hardcore porn on HBO.
@rawalex –
How in the world if someone has the CHOICE whether do something and then makes a CHOICE not do something means they’ve had their freedom of speech taken away??
No one is saying they can’t do it? The person is making a personal decision to NOT do it???
@lacey: Let me try to address all your issues:
The issue with strippers is that they are working in a licensed environment. That is to say the establishments themselves are licensed and regulated and THEREFORE the people who work in them are regulated.
However, if a girl (or guy) wants to be a stripper for private parties, bachelor parties, strip o grams, and so on, there is little the state can do to stop them. For that matter, if you want to strip for friends at a party, you don’t have to have a license to do it – and you do not face sanctions even if you charge money for the show. Thus, the licensing of strippers working in a licensed establishment does not touch non-licensed performances. It’s important, because unless they are willing to attempt (good luck) to license the porn producers, they are unlikely to be able to license the workers in the field.
It’s also misleading to confuse a licensed welder with a person who just happens to fuck on video. There are good reasons to have a welder licensed and trained, what exact training do you think would be required to get a fuck on video license?
“How in the world if someone has the CHOICE whether do something and then makes a CHOICE not do something means they’ve had their freedom of speech taken away??”
If the reason you chose not to do something was because of regulations which either forbid, block, or restrict the free speech act, then your free speech rights were restricted. If you could only write posts online if you first filed them with the government, and required them to be approved, got a license to publish, paid for a permit for your internet connection, and otherwise had a bunch of things to do before you could exercise your free speech rights, you would likely choose not to bother, too much effort. Would you post everything you do online if you name, address, phone number, date of birth, and personal picture were attached to all of them by government licensing?
Think about it, and you will figure out the answer.
Rawalex: You make a good argument, but there are some points that are just wrong.
Strippers are not necessarily licensed because the establishments where they work are licensed. For instance, every restaurant and bar that serves alcohol must have a business license to operate as a business, must be inspected and certified by the fire department and health department, must have a license to serve food and must have a separate license to serve alcohol. However, despite the licenses required of the business, the bartenders, cooks and wait staff do not have to be licensed to work in a highly-regulated and licensed environment. The bar tenders in a strip joint don’t have to be licensed. It is a separate license related to the occupation of being a stripper.
Second, all commercial businesses – including legal porn companies – must obtain business licenses to operate as commercial businesses. So, unlicensed porn talent is already working for a licensed commercial business. Under your theory, the requirement that a porn production business get a commercial business license and register with the state in order to produce constitutionally-protected speech is a prior restraint, especially if the porn company chooses not to produce porn because of that requirement.
Last, if a license to be porn talent is not content based, it is not a restriction on speech. Stripping has been found to be constitutionally-protected speech. A license to strip does not require a stripper to submit her routine to the government before she takes the stage. So, the notion that a license to have sex on film would require talent to submit their scenes to the government is off point.
When you say there are good reasons to have a welder licensed versus some one who fucks on video, why are there good reasons to have a Nevada hooker licensed – or a craps dealer for that matter – but not porn talent?
To the last, if a gal would choose to strip completely naked, spread her legs, and get penetrated by one or more men for the whole world to see without a license, but won’t get licensed because someone might find out she’s in the wrong business. Her scenes will live forever. Just ask Stacy Halas, the former porn actress who lost her teaching job because her students discovered that years ago, she did it on film. That’s far more likely to happen than someone hacks a government data base.
Last, the fact that someone chooses to do something or not to do something because of the requirements associated with doing that is a choice, not a prior restraint, as long as the requirements are reasonable.
If you doubt that, remember that the purest form of self-expression in the US is the right to vote. It is constitutionally-protected, just like speech. Any number of states have instituted new requirements that limit who can step into the voting booth, including requirements that you get documented. Those limitations have been upheld as constitutional.
Do you think the same courts that have held voting restrictions to be constitutional, including the requirement to produce documentation before you can vote, is going to say that Jennifer White’s right to participate in a 50 man anal cream pie without first getting a license is more sacred than her right to vote only after she produces documentation?
One other point. If you want to see an example of illegal actions by the porn industry, look to the declarations of one or two companies that going forward, they won’t film any scenes with an actress who is under 21.
Now, I think that’s probably a pretty good idea. It’s been applauded on this site and I think others. I’d join them.
Is it legal? No. No way. No way in hell.
If under the law an 18-year-old is legally allowed to participate in a profession and is otherwise qualified – she’s got the right body parts for the part; she’s attractive; and she’s willing to get naked and do the deed on film – any producer who openly declares I will not film 18-year olds because I think they’re too young to make this decision is opening themselves to an age discrimination lawsuit.
Mia Malkova is case in point. She’s cute as a button. She’s a hot property. And, she filmed her first scene at 18 or 19 with her mother in the room, watching her take an open mouth facial and swallow. Creepy? You betcha. But, she was legal under the law and she had parental consent, even though it wasn’t required. I do not believe she is yet 21.
If a producer refuses to work with her expressly because she is under 21, he has committed age discrimination and she can sue him. And win. In fact, all the industry under 21-year-olds could band together and file a class action suit and win it hands down. Or, the talent agencies could file suit because you’re depriving their young, legal, able-bodied clients the right to make a living and in turn depriving them a right to make their fees just because of their age.
Again, I applaud the decision. I think setting the age of consent for porn at 21 is a reasonable requirement. But, its not the law and anyone who expressly makes that a requirement for performing in their scenes is violating the law.
Again, it’s one of those porn things. Porn wants to act however it wants to act. Even when its trying to do the right thing, it can end up doing the wrong thing under the law.
@rawalex –
I have to say BT made the best point here regarding the similarities to voting rights.
If we went with your theory that free speech means being able to do or say anything you want at any given time, then the fact that you have to drive to a specific location and show legal documentation in order to vote would be considered “limiting” their freedom of expression because they had to go through the hassle of actually driving somewhere and bringing their license with them…
Who wants to do that? It’s a pain in the ass especially if you have to stand in line for 3 hours in order to get into the voting booth. But, it’s a necessary process to ensure a fair election.
I’ve honestly given up my right to vote based purely on the fact that I didn’t really feel like driving there and standing in line for hours… BUT, it was my personal choice not to vote. No one took my freedom to vote away from me.
If a porn actress has to stand in line for 3 hours to get a license before she can fuck on film then the same exact principles apply. It doesn’t matter if she thinks it’s boring or a pain in the ass. No one is saying she can’t fuck on camera for commercial purposes, they’re just requiring certain information or testing (health?) in order to safely perform for the public and WITH the public according to certain laws and/or safety regulations whether it’s OSHA regulations or something else…
@rawalex
” In order to get porn licensing to that level, they would have to effectively rule that a person’s body is a “work area” subject to restriction and licensing.”
You’ve said things in previous posts relating to expression and what is defined expression, but I’ll just cover it all here. I see where you are coming from and it can be a very fine line.
Body and expression being limited doesn’t have anything to do with it. Expression is not being limited. For strippers the work area is the venue. These girls can do it in their backyards if they have a permit and aren’t selling booze or charging entrance. They may be able to slide without a permit if that is the case. In porn the set is the work area and the finished product is the expression. Now, if the film was made without the intention to sell then you may have something. Those who film home movies with their partner still have to adhere to 2257 laws because I can’t find anywhere in the laws stating that it is limited to those who sell for financial gain. If I post a picture of Rhianna blowing a man on a blog I own then I have to have the 2257 info. Isn’t that my expression being limited? No. I can post that as long as I have the information.
So, licensing can be easily applied to safety regulations.
Fighting free speech in porn is futile. If you say expression then they’ll just throw obscenity at you and then try to fight it. How many were able to do that successfully aside from matters thrown out of court? Rob did it once, but lost overall so no one that I can think of. 95% of producers would go for a plea today.
Licensing does not hinder. Hey, it is better than having each performer require a permit before each time they shoot. Count your stars on that one. Performers are getting out easy.
“Did your permit come in yet? I wish you could just get licensed so we don’t have these delays and we could just shoot this film already.”
If you want to fight with them then expect the restrictions to be greater. Isn’t that what happened just now?
Protestors have to get permits. That definitely trumps anyone filming an adult movie claiming that licensing prohibits free speech and it holds up in court.
If I am an artist and want to put on a fireworks display I have to be licensed in order to purchase certain fireworks. (Imagine the permits too) Isn’t that hindering my expression? Let’s say I get the license, but cannot find dealers that are licensed to sell them. Is that hindering my expression? No.
If people want to film themselves doin’ the nasty and they have the proper 2257 info and don’t intend to sell the film then they can do it. They’re not going to get busted. There is your expression. You can do it.
Oh, but you want to make money? Well, that has nothing to do with expression. If you want to express yourself then go right ahead as long as you follow the laws with that. Receiving monetary compensation for it has nothing to do with expression.
No wonder porn inusdrty is not paying attention opions being post here buy people not in porn indusrty. So now people not in porn indusrty are saying they well stop paying watch porn if porn indusrty made safer buy make porn stars wear condoms. e give advice all those in porn indusrty. Please keep telling those in porn inusdrty how not gone care about health safty well explain not gone pay for there porn movies if they make porn indusrty safer, Keep explain how you think porn stars lives worthless unless they make porn movies your way that not safe. Now same people say gone punish there favrita porn stars buy going for free porn tubes site watching free porn instead of paying for it. Wow be real friend your favrita porn star she work hard for money she makes so all can jerk off her becuase she may have work condom fnow or safty you all say well just make sure no longer get paid for here work. I love people health safty not effect buy working in porn indusrty please give your opion. Sure porn inusdrty love know there people out there do not care about them do not be pay see them want keep them work unsafe work environment. Remind those porn inusdrty outside people want keep telling porn indusrty safe ever been not putting there lives there healths online there puting yours. They do give fig if your life in danger they well just jerk off next porn star comes long on free tube site there not pay for.
“Protestors have to get permits. That definitely trumps anyone filming an adult movie claiming that licensing prohibits free speech and it holds up in court.”
I’m not sure I’ve ever considered that in a debate regarding freedom of speech, but that has to be one of the best defenses I’ve ever heard.
Protesting has to be one of the most free forms of expression there is in the US, but you are still required to have a permit to protest mainly due to safety concerns.
Damn, that’s a good one CPanzram. 🙂
Richard will it help you feel better to know lots of the people at the party last night actually PAY for their porn…some even go to conventions. they don’t tell their wives it for a porn convention though…lol found out lots of good stuff today..and two guys even told me they purchased amazon wish list items. My gaybors have an entire 5x9ft section of bookcase filled with DVDs …that’s their porn section of the library. I may not watch but I’m married to a traveller and hang with tons of rich business men 🙂
@bt……I just typed up a response to your post about age discrimination and it got lost……agh……I hate that…..lol…..so just In a ahort nutshell I stated that I don’t think age discrimination would hold up in this case…..producers have the freedom of expression (really thinking about the word expression after reading rawalexs comments) when it comes to filling character rolls with performers….they can choose any age to work with as long as over 18…….they can focus on milfs or what have you and that would all fall under content of artist expression.
@Laura – completely agree that if the part calls for an actor or actress of a certain age, a producer has the right to pick and choose. You’re not going to use an 18-year-old for a MILF movie (even if she got knocked up at 16).
However, the larger point is that several producer/directors have explicitly said they will no longer hire actresses under the age of 21 because they don’t believe they are mature enough to make a decision that could alter their lives. Those are not content-based decisions. They are stating they will not hire someone who is otherwise qualified for the job because in their opinion, they don’t have enough experience to make an informed decision. Take that out of porn and have a potential employer, like the Gap, say I will not hire anyone over the age of 45 because my customers won’t buy skimpy clothes because they’ll think of their disapproving moms or I won’t hire an 18-year-old cocktail waitress because I think she’s too young to serve booze to traveling salesmen who might try to cop a feel. I know they’re both qualified by the job, but I don’t want anyone that age working for me.
Sorry, it’s not legal to make those kinds of decisions. Employers do all the time, but they don’t publicly state them.
Again, I applaud the decision. But, my guess is that the script for most porn – assuming there’s even a script – is not age specific once you get outside of MILF.
The really larger point is that porn wants to be treated like a serious business, but it continues to operate in a bubble. Porn wants to do whatever porn wants to do. If those producers feel really strongly that girls under 21 shouldn’t have sex on film, get it passed into law so that its not discriminatory – they can’t drink under 21, so its not a stretch. But don’t make up your own employment rules.
Some of you are very verbose!
A point mentioned by several here is that freedom of speech is not an absolute right. For instance, you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater. That is not protected speech because the ensuing riot to get out of the building would directly harm people.
@Lacey
I always love watching the news when groups say that police kicked them out of an area in an unjust manner and then the sheriff informs the host that if the protesters would have filed for the proper permits they would have been granted and they would have been allowed to hold their demonstration. Police and city officials just like to be notified if a large group is going to form somewhere so they can make sure they have the resources available to handle it. How does that hinder free speech?
Porn has no argument. Making money isn’t free speech. They can make all the movies they want.
Shooting porn has not been established to be illegal in any US state.
@CPanzram –
You know what the best part is? The authorities aren’t making protestors obtain permits just to hinder their speech or just to be assholes…
The purpose of the permit is primarily to protect THE PROTESTORS, not the public.
Could you imagine a group forming a protest against condoms in porn and then getting mad when citizens start physically harming or seriously injuring them? Then they would call the police expecting them to hurry in to save them…
Oh, and THEN they would just bitch about how the public is hindering their freedom of speech…
It never ends.
@Lacey
True. The permits expiring helps too because in the instance of the Occupy Wallstreet thing the protesters tents were filled with rats and the protesters own feces causing a huge health concern. Think if that would have kept going? That’s a lot of poop and rats considering NYC is already filled with that.
A huge part of it is the use of resources. It helps protect those not involved in the protest at all like people on the opposite side of town. If all of the police are unprepared and have to deal with a huge protest then one could go from liquor store to gas station knocking them off in a systematic fashion and the cops couldn’t respond properly.
Actually, if you want to be politically correct you absolutely can yell “fire” in a crowded theatre!!
But, you would then probably get your ass hauled off to jail and would get sued by anyone in the theatre who got hurt PLUS the theatre could potentially sue you if someone decides to directly sue the theatre to cover the cost of medical bills.
US citizens are pretty much “free” to do whatever they want… it just depends on whether you are willing to face the consequences that come along with a particular action.
If CA passed a condom mandatory requirement, but the penalty for distributing a condom free porn was just a $100 fine then most productions would shoot non-condom porn and just pay the small $100 fee and be done with it….
The only way something is “technically” wrong is if you happen to get caught. If I don’t wear my seatbelt today and never get pulled over then nothing has changed. If I don’t wear my seatbelt tomorrow and get pulled over for speeding then I will get a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt.
It was MY decision not to wear my seatbelt based on the fact that I was willing to accept that I will get fined if I am caught without wearing my seatbelt.
It’s all about risk (and money).
Verbose enough? Haha.
@Lacey
The consequences if done by law can hinder expression, but the yelling “fire” in a theater argument is considered Imminent Lawless Action. You are not free to do that unless there is a fire. That’s a good thing though because people already talk enough during a movie.
The mandatory condom requirements will carry hefty fines. They already thought of that. Those busted have already had to pay a lot and I think it comes out of the pocket of the director and not the studio since the directors are the ones charged.
Think of if you owned a studio that got busted for not using condoms and you can prove that your competitors aren’t using them…
You probably wouldn’t keep your mouth shut. Who would?
LurkingReader does help there far more people well not pay watch porn indusrty on free tubesite. There whole group people that tell world well why porn indusrty need change nothing wrong with who cares if porn stars get dease who cares if porn star die from working in porn indusrty. Now got people outside inside porn indusrty threatening those in porn indusrty try want make safer becuase they do not want to. Yet those make excuses troll those make porn indusrty safer can not make common cents agrument what there side done any thing stop the STD disasters keep happen in porn indusrty. This disasters did place ten years ago they took place just last year. So glade friends you pay for porn but there still world out there not paying for porn that does give flying fig about health safty porn stars. There group people more well defend no change in porn indusrty becuase they do care about it. There welling come here voice there opion on it.
Lacy next time cops pull you over I want explain to him about why chose not wear seat belt explain him how does matter how many tickets he well give you for it. So Lacy gone go traffic court explain judge that she care so little about law she welling break no matter how much well cost her like her driver license her freddom her money seat belt tickets. They cost money be star off from $250.00 dallors for frist one all way 2000 dallors any more than one. Thet state does wait for you pay your seat belt ticktes refuse pay them state well come collecting you. So want waste money get in trouble cops in Ca take Lacy adive she might able pay off your seat belt tickets if get in trouble. More adive from people who can get you in lots trouble if listen to it.
I am share story becuase what happen some porn stars did go out get this permit. Some time ago porn indusrty was force get permit make porn movies in City of La counrty of La did matter porn being at porn company building or porn stars home. You had have this permit shot porn in Ca. Some porn star like Kylie Ireland Miko Tan refuse get one staying at time that not worry about becuase know gone enforce them have one. La Police vice squad told all those in porn inudsrty they where gone be check for those permit any one did have one gone pay penalty for not have one. Sure enough La police vice squide star arresting porn star all over La county did have permit shoot porn. Not only porn stars did have permit get fine they got told they be spend jail time if got caught again with out. Judge look at Miko Tan Kylie Ireland told them was frist last time he want see them court over this matter gone toss book at them over matter. He told them law is the law if chose break again he have no choose punish them the way law have do so if caught them again with out permit. Funny thing happen sent those event happen there has been any one stupid enough shoot with out permit. Becuase it seem people who enforce permits had no trouble catching those who where not useing them.
La county city La that had have permit shot porn movies in. There was big push enforce that permit in indusrty at time they enforce on ever one in porn indusrty there. Only point I was making was that caught ever body who was use them in porn indusrty was make porn at time with out primit. Only reason Lacy would know about this becuase was before she got in porn indusrty .
Sorrt but I was in florida for a mini vacation, so here is my 2 cents a few days late. First off I can see it getting licensed as a way to counter all the threats about no condom shoots going underground, and we all know there are porn girls escorting on the side or escorts doing amatuer shoots to boost their rates for customers. All the same the government can use this to block escorts from entering the business because if you have a prostitution charge no license. If a producer hires a girl with no license he gets a soliciting charge and the talent gets a prostitution charge. Tack that onto maybe no filming permit for a hotel room or backroom casting couch shoot and a lot of people that may bring disease to porn maybe forced out. A lot of municipalities, counties and states use these licenses to bring harsher charges on illegitment massage parlor brothels and escorts. Poor stripprs who use the stage to attract after shift clients and things like that.
I am shocked at how many girls and guys resist this as it may eliminate people with risky side work from bringing transmissions on set. Or are these people objecting because they are guilty of escorting on the side. I know I look forward to not hearing about about a teenmom psuedo celebbrity making paying male talent to make a supposed to be private sex tape with a superstar male talent (escorting in this case?). And then running off to vivid to sell. Girl if u want to make real money get tested, licensed, and book several shoots and go big or go home. This sex doll line is pathetic for a leaked tape only.
@Acftmech…….. you make some good points
@acftmech –
Oh god. Don’t even get me started on that crazy, psychotic, stupid, dumbass fucking cunt. I’m STILL pissed at James Deen and Vivid for subjecting the public to that shit. That moron is so stupid she showed up to a porno convention with an actual pearl necklace on… really cute… dumb fuck.
That whole fucking thing was one big set-up from the beginning. Although, I will say Deen really worked for that paycheck. You would have to be a professional fucker to keep your dick hard during that shit.
Btw, her fucking manager was an ex-porn star who, I believe, had worked for Vivid and also with Deen at some point?
@Lacey
So …no kiss and tell luncheon with her anytime soon?
It’s pretty pathetic if the best thing you can get off on is a synthetic sex doll of a woman who probably wouldn’t let you scrape the gum off the bottom of her shoe for less cash than the doll cost….maybe it’s a safe sex thing?
I don’t normally go around assaulting people, but I honestly think I would punch her in the face for being so god damn annoying.
And then I would punch her creepy parents for making such a snotty little brat.
In the words of Rob Black: She’s a fucking retard.
@Lacey
Prolly shouldn’t invite her to dinner either then:)
Dinner??? I wouldn’t even let her in my house!!!!!! 😀
@ lacey and lurking,
I must admit I would never want near that whiney uppity little bitch. Synthetic or real. I have a sneaky suspicion that pos hadn’t gotten laid since her baby daddy knocked her up, because a she is afraid some cute enough guys will run around as soon as they hopped out of bed and brag that they banged a teen mom. And decent quality men though not a model wouldn’t touch her with a 50 foot pole because we would want to shoot ourselves than deal with her needy whining and god lets not talk about a life with her mom as an in law and her pimpy creepy dad that helped negotiate her sex tape sell.
I am sorry to say it but the more avn, xbiz, fsc, and others threaten underground shoots, leaving to arizona, the us, or anywhere else they will see a new counter move. I swear the industry is playing checkers, while ahf and the government are playing chess. The industry is losing the long game with regulation trying to use fear in a pr campaign with the public when having a serious issue with infections this summer and fall. Frankly, If Cameron & Sophia escorted on the side and camerons boyfriend was pay for gay, then who knows where the infection came from or who they gave it to. Who did mr. Marcus get syphillis from and how.
I really think male performers need to register and only perform in gay or straight. As much as the likes of Evan gross me out, those cross over model types may be getting to dangerous and only will lead to tighter regulation in order to control sti and the remainder of the population since we all know performers may and due date outside of the industry to maintain a feeling of normalcy and reality.
The only problem with your theory is that you’re assuming that none of the performers escort or have sex outside of the industry.
Not only do most of them do it, but many of them freely admit to doing it…. the fact is HIV, syphilis, Hep. C could have come from just about ANYWHERE.
At this point, the industry regulates themselves against STD’s by burning performers who get publicly caught being infected with the hope that any infected performers would be too ashamed and scared to admit to contracting something because “the industry” will scream and holler about how irresponsible they are for bringing STD’s into the talent pool when everyone knows the entire talent pool is FULL of STD’s.
What other industry has tons of people who “retire” and then come back 6 months later… the number is outrageous. And magically most of the performers who “come back” always seem to win awards or covers or …..
It’s the same strategy that is commonly used when a performer gets the shit beaten out of them or breaks a bone and then they get the box cover for being so “hardcore” and “brave.” All it really means is that they feel guilty for you getting hurt and then try to bribe you into staying quiet while praising your pain as some sort of accomplishment….
Oh, the scene is over and the performer is sobbing in the shower? Just go tell her she’s getting the box cover for her hard work…
(This really has happened, btw.)
It’s fucking ridiculous.
The porn industry is more responsible for stds in the general public than the general public is responsible for stds in the industry.
@jilted and lacey.
I know many girls in porn may and due escort on the side nowadays and the worse part is bareback with clients. I just remember my undergrad and after years when u met your favoritr porn star when she came to your area as a feature dancer at a strip club. Hell working ops for an airline before I got a mechanics license I met several of the biggest of the 90’s when their bags got lost or damaged. Their personalities seemed so grounded and far from the over the top antics u see in interviews or the avn show on showtime. Fast forward 5 more years and some girls visit mr hoff in nevada and givr fans a better treat making more money though condom mandatory. Fast forward 5 more and we are here with escorting. No offence I think those who hire escorts and pay for bareback are their own form of sick making the girl a petri dish of all her clients diseases. The girl needs more respect for herself.
On to porn bringing more diseases into thr general population than we give to them. The medical community if porn were closed to who they intereacted with a closed circle environment. And to allow a new person in they would have to be tested clean before interacting with. In that enviroment u would have no sti because everyone is clean and hell if everyone got their flu, hep, and other vaccinations no bug could gain footing in that society. The problem with porn is that members leave the circle get infected and return to the circle in between tests of their health. That condition reintroduces pathogens to your group and everyone gets infected faster. Now in that proven medical scenario the general public or more to thr point porns interaction sexually without protection with general public is the source of all their infections and not the other way around. Porn has a hard time staying closed because frankly they don’t live I’m a biodome or on a ship way out at sea. Performers will date outside thr industry, but one would hope they would show better decision making on protection use with those outside of porn. Namely find someone to be monogomous with and have them tested clean before going condomless. And people if you get the clap, gonerhea, syphillis, come forward and get treated and admit you have had unprotected sex between tests with someone outside of porn and let it be shown porn isn’t really the cesspool that brings infections to the public it is the other way around. And if your going to have sex outside of porn with multiple or different partners be respectful of yourself and your fellow performers and wear protection till your in a committed relationship and then ask your partner be tested before throwing out the condoms
@Acfmecwh,
The porn industry is NOT a closed cirlce, never has been, never will be. Today, just like every other day there are performers who have stds working on sets. EVERY SINGLE DAY performers with std’s work in the industry. That is why they have a testing system, because the KNOW there are constantly stds among the working pool.
It seem so silly when you see people argue that doing bareback outside of the porn cirlce is so dangerous, but bareback within the porn circle is just fine. Makes no sense what so ever.
read the following link by Ernest Greene from 20 years ago, explaining the concept of Tribal Epidemiology. You have a closed cirlce, but once the disease is introduced it spreads like wildfire and never leaves. STD’s are in the porn cirlce ALL THE TIME.
More civilians get stds from porn performers than porn performers from civilians. And performers get more stds from eachother than civilians. The industry has been using the “big lie” technique on this issue for a LONG time, that is, repeat the lie so often that is just becomes accepted as fact.
http://www.lukeisback.com/2012/10/ernest-greene-supports-condoms-back-in-1993/
Here is the thing about tribal epidemilogy. Herpes is in porn to stay and at some point every member will get it.. in that link u sent it talked about how the porn industry was fairly clean till a producer had a new girl tested and put her to work before the results came back. In that single weekend she infected 7 people and shortly after that outbreak spread like wildfire. It also kind of proves that yes porn is a ever evolving circle that can never be completely closed, but bad sexual behavior is problematic for society at large. If porn performers lived on lacy’s love boat then you can bareback all day long and if everyone was tested and treated prior to boarding said ship then u could be unprotected all day long with only worries being pregnancies. Go to shore and abstain or use condoms and then retest when reboarding everyone stays clean.
It is bs how fsc runs its testing and buries it head in the sand that all performers had sex regularly outside their circle and are passing some sti to the public and others into the industry.
I always wondered due women in porn only interested in tools and douche bags that are players with sti’s from women they have other one night stands with? Or are clean cut honest men to boring and square?
ACT,
You seem to forget that alot of the GUYS in the industry do escorting too, and not with women.
Not only is herpes here to stay, so is gonnoreah, chlamydia, hpv, and a few others.
So many of the industry arguments revolve around ideas that just dont exist. Performers should have the CHOICE to use condoms, but we all know there is no choice, you go bareback or you dont work. Performers should be more responsible in their private lives, but when it comes to work they can be as irresponsible as hell and its okay,(50 man anal creampie) So when #50 in the gangbang works on another set tomorrow, how exposed is his partner in that scene(alot more that someone who had sex with a civilian yesterday.)
Nevada brothels are just like Lacey’s boat. You show up there, get tested, and if you leave the brothel grounds for any amount of time you have to be tested again before you work. In addition, even if you stay on the brothel grounds you get tested every week.
But Lacey’s boat does exist, and no system like it exists in porn.
The wildfire spread of diseases like gonnoreah and chlamydia are in the porn pool RIGHT NOW, and have been for years and years.
ACTMECH, have you ever wondered why the industry has NEVER released stats about the stds in their testing program. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the stats would be in their favor they would be spouting them all over the place, but they dont, and that should tell you someithing. How can the industry say we have a lower std rate and NEVER release any information about the std rate in the industry. Everybody gets tested every 14 or 28 days, the information is there, why not make it public if it will support your claims of less disease,,,,because its a lie, the rates are astronomicly higher, and the testing system proves it.
When did it become Lacey’s Love Boat???
Hahahaha!!!!!!!
Do we start calling you Capt Lacey now?
@lacey,
It became your love boat when you came up with that brilliant idea. I know that the Industry has chartered a cruise ship in the past to sell tickets for a porn fantasy cruise the same as trips to hedonism. As a single man I could never get fellow bachelors to go, but now knowing the sti issues I am kind of glad I didn’t get to go.
Perhaps late, but here are my last thoughts:
If two people with HIV want to make a porn tape and sell it, there should be no restriction. A “porn licensing” system as described would have a health / testing regime attached that would discriminate against anyone with a disease, Two people who are already infected and don’t care could have unprotected sex and it wouldn’t matter – and stopping them from commercially selling the tape (or even just distributing it in any manner) would deny them their free speech rights.
The government cannot create a system that discriminates or causes discrimination to happen and have it stand in a court of law. Denying someone with herpes or Hep C the right to make a porn movie with someone else equally infected would be discriminatory.
The government just can’t get involved in that manner. They can mandate condoms or hazmat suits or whatever it is that people think they will do, but they cannot stop people from their rights to free speech.
I have seen this,”Match HIV+ perfrorners with other HIV+ performers in the past, usuall from the “industry can do no wrong crowd.”
Do you have any real idea how FUCKING STUPID this is. HIV is a virus with many, many different strains. Any individuals medication is based on their particular strain, and MIXING strains together just leads to more mutations. You basicly get RE-INFECTED and the meds you were taking can now be worthless, let alone, creating even new strains.
This is another industry bullshit line that has been repeated so often that people actually think it is a viable solution, especially the gay industry companies. But you would think that HIV+ people would be a little better educated about the deadly disease that they have. but then again, they are choosing to do porn even though they are infected, and that right there aint the brightest thing to be doing.
Now telling lies enough times it becomes the truth. I guess diane duke lifted the sheet from the real sarah palin, rush limbaugh, michelle bauchman, glenn beck, sean hannity, ted cruz, rand paul, etc. It is total bullshit and medical fiction long debunked as lies.
@rawalex
Show me where in the laws it says that monetary compensation for art is part of free speech. You keep bringing up the same argument and it is incorrect. They can shoot all they want without condoms and express themselves with their freedom of speech. They want money, well, then there are laws that they have to abide by.
Remember, those who get in trouble for obscenity DO NOT get in trouble for creating art. They just get in trouble for mailing it using the US postal service. They could probably sell it and ship it through Fedex or UPS. You can create obscenity. (Though, I am unsure as to how one does that because it can’t be specifically defined) Just don’t mail it across state lines.
No one was busted for creating art last time I checked in regards to pornography.
@acttmech
How do you those people didn’t lift the trick from Duke? Lol. My point is politicians lie. No party has the market on the lies, it’s called keeping the sponsors (donors) happy and grabbing votes…I’ve said it before and say it again…Duke does her job well. She is sponsored by FSC/stakeholders.
Hence the party line …no on set transmission..yep..since last time..for the ones we count.
As for the let Em fuck bareback if they want…one word COINFECTION…look up HIV2, sure it’s African, you think they don’t travel? European strains of HIV that we don’t have on our radar yet….I hope you will take notice..your industry tests only look for HIV1 and then that gets subset for treatment…European HIV is some bad shit…a combo that’s resistant to treatment…be careful of those exotic foreigners 🙂
@lurking reality.
A little hint lacey may have picked up on. I am not in thr adult entertainment business at all. My name is my profession and to say what side let s say I am adding greys like everytime thid year because upper management is crawling up our ass to push tin and get the porn stars to their grandparents for the weekend.
@acftmech
Im not in industry either…midwest homemaker from east coast. You a grease monkey? My dumb brother too..no put down intended..six kids in family somebody had to be the dumb one 😉
Good luck with the suits this week…sending some ‘wash that grey right outta my hair’ your way.
@lurking
Actually spent 8 years turning wrenches, working as a crew chief for airlines, avionics, and inspector. Now I am presently sitting at my desk on my phone killing a little time watching my fleet of 75 planes zip around thr midwest and east coast right now waiting for a pilot calls for a maintenance problem so I can dispatch mechanics and provide telephone tech support to anyone.
Hope u have a great weekend. Born and raised in illinois and living in indiana now. Spent years bouncing from illinois, texas, ohio, and kentucky.
acftmech-
That sounds like an interesting job! I’ve always wanted to see how planes are assembled. Although, they use to built space shuttles here and I never got around to going there… it’s not like I could have gotten clearance to enter anyway, I guess?
I’ve always wanted to fly a fighter jet too! But, we all know that’s never going to happen either…. 😀
actually lacey you could, at least when i was at NASA you could, you see NASA is a civilian Space Program so you dont need a clearance to know all about it I have a thousand plus page shuttle ops manual around here someplace..they gave em out NP
The only thing that needed a clearance were DOD launches and those firing rooms (3 and 4) were owned and maintained by the Dept of Defense so they were “RED” meaning you had to have a clearance. generally speaking even then the Payloads were usually the only thing classified though launch dates and times were also considered secret
NASA cape canaveral had several tour options. Nephew did space camp and got to do all the simulators @13 yrs old. Used to bring our girls down to watch them roll out the launches all the time, then pick a place on the shore for best viewing advantage to watch Em fly….anyone hear the whoomph whoomph of re entry?
@Lacey
>>>>barf bag for next fighter jet or space mission…those g’s aren’t like the g spot all the girls are so fond of 🙂
@lacey
Wish we still had our heavy maintenance line here in indy if you made it into town I would happily work out a tour of the hangar. Unfortunately my company moved the heavy check when thr plane is gutted inside and out to columbus oh and outsourced a lot to the manufacturer facility in nashville. Though nothing is like watching major assemblies get mated and aligned.
@lurking,
Well lets say those g forces for some women hit that g spot as good as anything. Same as why I knew a few girls in flight school that loved prop jobs because the vibration was at just the right speed and intensity. Kind of like slow and hard of the harley, or fast and gentle of a crotch rocket.
I have multiple maintenanc e systems manuals for regional jets if you want them and a set of avionics operation and maintenance manual for my jungle jets.
I know how to break that love boat in — tie up a couple of Kink.com cuties, get some of New Orleans’ guys and let Princess Donna film a gangbang scene. Maybe even fly in homeless #40 to participate. You will have to convince Princess Donna and Peter Acworth to do it, though.
@acftmech
Bikes are good..just not in hard or icy rain. Much easier to build momentum vs jet pilot showing off how fast he can make his toy move
…that always merits a barf bag (as he laughs at yer green ass 🙂
…. .did they move stuff to CMH or regionals? Rick and Exec both do fleet maintenance too.
It’s been amazing watching CMH grow like Daytona did in early 90’s..used to ride ..someone else flew the buckets of bolts..out of Colts Neck & Teaneck NJ into regionals on NE coast..saw daytona …this isn’t an international terminal.
Should we use manuals like old phone books? Doorstops? Booster seats? Kids time capsule project…some things do change ..sorta lol
Why does it have to be a boat? They are moving forward with a floating Dubai kind of thing..luxury living only it floats vs building a soil infrastructure to hold it up? Imagine it would have levels like a ship…stick the #40 in steerage quarantine? Lol
Well if your in columbus we are a low key airline republic in a old assy hangat near the corporate.
I would love to see that production party just give me an ocean view room.