Questions for Shelley Lubben about The Pink Cross

I should start this by saying that, though I have written some fairly anti-religion articles on my own blog, many times, I want to be on the side of religion. I do really. I don’t obsess about any topic unless I have feelings for it, as well as against it. I think that any route we can find in life that inspires us to care about other people is productive. Also, it’s not so much all of the ideas behind religion that drives me crazy as it is the hateful person’s interpretation of a religion and it’s traditions. One person can use any story to say that it is a good thing to help your fellow human being. Another person can twist any story to say that it is only okay to help only one type of person and condemn the rest. So, it is important that anyone who has read my endless banter against discrimination, in the form of religion, know that I am really just very much in question of people who will use any means to hurt other people. Well, and that whole ‘Man in the Sky’ thing still bothers me… A topic for another time!

When I first heard about The Pink Cross, my first reaction was a positive reaction. Helping people, treating other people kindly, is healthy and very good. I am a huge proponent of groups that help living things: environmentalists, groups that save children and women from domestic violence, animal rights activists, the U.S. Department of Veteran’s Affairs, etc… People who care are always needed in our world. They are necessary!

When I found out that The Pink Cross is a religious organization, I became instantly skeptical. But, I thought, ‘You know, putting my skepticism about religion aside, it’s probably only fair to just ask the main person, Shelley Lubben, why the religious overtones are even a factor in this organization.’ Regardless of what I think, the fact is that religion is an integrated part of our species’ culture well beyond most written history. For some reason people don’t search for their own inner moral compass to lead them. Most people need magical stories, strict guidelines for how to be, who to be, why to be, and they also need to know exactly where they are going. And it’s as if most people prefer to be told what to do. They want the guesswork taken out of living, even if it still leaves them with questions. It’s hard for me to understand, really, because it’s as if they think that the fabric of their existence will unravel into the abyss of extinction if someone doesn’t hand them a picture-page outline of exactly what’s going on, instead of seeing the unknown the way I see it, as a world of wonder and incredible possibility that reconnects me through the eyes of my own inner child, a child who is endlessly fascinated with the wonders of “The Beyond” – a wonder that isn’t just about outer space and the possibility of life on other planets, but the mysteries we still grapple with here on Earth, the wonder of “You”, the wonder of “Me”. It seems a sad existence if everything is so finite and predictable. That, and of course, it makes no sense, to me. But again, if we are talking about “most people”, maybe that can be a source of my compassion for this particular organization.

I was at a birthday dinner the other night and a Jewish friend was explaining the Ten Days of Repentance – ten days of thinking about your ways before facing your maker on Yom Kippur. I won’t assume to write a comprehensive piece on this because I would get details wrong – I’m not Jewish – and it is not my intention to mislead anyone about any tradition, but from what he told me, I was in a bit of awe by it. He finished his explanation, and I said, “Wow. That’s a very clever way of consciously getting people to stop and think about what they’re doing with their lives. That’s impressive.” And it is! I mean, if you’re going to get your group of people to pay attention, that is one thought-out way to do it! And it is, of course, things like this that can make me see the beauty in almost any tradition. They all have some noble things about them.

Where I know my compassion can be reached in Shelley’s case is this: maybe she is not a discriminating religious person, maybe she just realizes that people need the third-party justification of religion to be okay with helping the lowly sex worker (speaking from the thoughts of people who would normally look down on such people, of course). Maybe Shelley realizes that just starting an organization without religion would get no one’s attention. Maybe she tried! Maybe she knows that just being “someone who cares”, for most people, is not enough. Maybe she is clever and in her own thoughts she knows that the only way, is to dress it up, in order to get the non-sex industry person involved – people who would not, otherwise, care about a prostitute or a “porn star” – even though they are as deserving of care as anyone else.

Somehow religion, once it enters the picture, any picture, no matter how crazy the idea, no matter how ridiculous the notion, or horrific the end result – even murder – somehow it is a carte blanche pass to do whatever you want. If this is something Shelley knows and uses, I sympathize. If Shelley, having been a prostitute, and knowing the shadier and more basic motivations in people, knows that there is no other way to get people to care about her kind, my heart goes out to her. I would still disagree with the method because tricking people into helping you may seem like the only way, but it is not the only way. No one wants to be a martyr – no one that I know, anyway – but I believe that just being honest can get the same result. That’s just me, of course. Maybe I’m wrong.

If Shelley is, actually, a very religious person, then I have several important questions for her. And I do make her the focal point of all my questions because she is the spokesperson for The Pink Cross.

One obvious question is, do you only help women? Certainly, there are men who would like to be saved from their lives, that work in the sex industry? Do you just let people come to you, and if not, do you go to industry functions and just stand to the side as someone available to help, or do you and/or your people actually push yourselves on industry people who may not want your help, people who are perfectly happy with their lives? It’s an important question because if it is a pushy cause, it’s no different than a drug pusher getting right in someone’s face with the hard sell that crack is the cheapest route to the happiest place on earth when you can’t afford to go to Disneyland.

Also, I saw the video of “Dead Porn Stars”, with title cards of how they died. That video is very insensitive because it just further stereotypes the sex worker as someone destined to die of AIDS, alcoholism, overdose, suicide… if they don’t “get out now”. The closet parallel to a porn star’s life is the rock star life. The job, itself, pretty much requires personalities that lean toward the extroverted and outrageous. It is a lifestyle that invites excess. Also, for a good portion of time, one must remember, there were only so many porn stars, so I think it is an unfair representation of everyone in the adult industry, or maybe you have an organization in the works to save rock stars from their deviant lives, as well? I would be curious to know how many ex-porn stars are still alive and well and not contemplating suicide, or how many ex and current porn stars there are that are contemplating suicide, not because they feel badly about themselves as a result of their own thinking, but as a result of the kind of thinking that motivates videos that put them down as doomed because they are in porn. Videos like the “Dead Porn Star” video.

The most important question is, if you are professing to care about  a group of people, someone who wants them to get out of a bad situation, and your basic claim in helping them is that you don’t judge them, if they want your help but are not willing to “accept God as their savior”, do you help them, anyway? Maybe a person wants help but is not willing to pledge their devotion, maybe they are still looking for their own answers – are they still accepted as worthy of receiving your help? I’m not talking about someone who is blatantly rude about it, but maybe with all of their heart they just don’t know what they believe, yet. Do you still care about this person and give them aide? It’s a good question, because if the answer is “No,” then what you are saying is the opposite of how you are presenting yourself. It’s like PETA posting campaign ads that insult people: “Save The Whales”, with a picture of an overweight woman in a bathing suit next to the title. You can’t profess to care by being uncaring. It doesn’t make sense. “Watch me display how sensitive I am, through my insensitivity…” It doesn’t make any sense. If you turn people who need help, away, then you are saying, “Well, I would care about you, but if you don’t care about God, you are unworthy of help.”

I’m not trying to be an asshole, I think it’s important to point out that there may be many people who do want help, but you’ve alienated them by making religion the most important factor in whether or not their lives are worth anything. PETA has made the core of their motivation about being publicly mean to children and overweight people. They use shock propaganda tactics to get attention and, consequently, they alienate entire groups of people they could be reaching out to. I think you could be doing great things with your organization, if your core goal is really about the people and not the religion. And that leaves the last question. Maybe the cause has nothing really to do with helping sex workers or pushing religion. Maybe these things are just byproducts of a greater cause. Maybe the core of your passion here is really just about promoting the only interest you have ever had in mind. Maybe this is all really just about you?

– Julie Meadows

29590cookie-checkQuestions for Shelley Lubben about The Pink Cross

Questions for Shelley Lubben about The Pink Cross

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52 Responses

  1. A lot of studies have shown that occupation is not a predictor of suicide, but if it were, “white male physicians” seems to be up at the top. Mama, don’t let your boys grow up to be doctors.

    It’s interesting, though, that when one person has a bad experience, they assume all others have too, and are in dire need of “saving”.

  2. Interesting, definitely. And the help never starts at the fundamental level. People want porn, they’re going to pay for it, someone has to perform in it to make it happen, so why not just treat porn stars better? Be nice to them and not shove guilt down their throats at every turn? It’s so silly. Their not terrorizing anyone, they’re having fun and entertaining people. People think that it’s an easy out to get into the adult industry, which is the most preposterous assumption I have ever heard. It takes real balls (if you know what I mean), to do what these people do. There is nothing “easy” about it. I better stop, I feel a tangent coming on. 😛

  3. Pink Cross does get pushy with women who aren’t looking for their help. Jayden James was featured on an episode of MTV’s “True Life” series called “I’m addicted to porn.” while they were filming her at the AVN show, Shelley Lubben and crew came to her hotel room and actively attempted to get her to quit the business.

    Honestly, Pink Cross seems like a really insidious organization that tries to shame women into leaving the business and accepting christianity. Unlike quasi-religious organizations like AA, they seem to be media-hungry and more interested in pushing their agenda (religion) than simply offering help to women who need it.

    Just my 2 cents.

  4. Goddess, Great point. I was thinking on similar lines as I watched the “Dead Porn Stars” video (yeah, I had to look it up). I mean, come on, is suicide, drugs, alcoholism, and violence only associated with the porn industry (and rock stars, of course). What about comedians like John Belushi and Chris Farley?

    Julie, Another fantastic, thought-provoking article. I think this perspective ties in well with your article on bad relationships. The adult industry certainly doesn’t have a monopoly on drug addiction or alcoholism. It’s like saying being a movie star causes cancer… think about it, Swayze, Farrah, and lest we not forget, John Wayne (a moment of silence). I wonder if Lubben would admit that there are ladies in the adult industry that aren’t drug addicts and don’t allow themselves to be a abused. That there are men in the industry that are respectful, honest, and considerate (real men). One last rant (sorry). On the dead porn star video, the majority died from drugs or suicide. I also wonder if Lubben’s group “rescues” the millions of people who are likely to fall to the same fate, yet aren’t in the public eye as “sex workers”?

    Great post, Julie! Vert insghtful.

  5. Julie…first off it was GREAT to talk to you Friday…thanks for returning my call and listening to my banter..I’m sure AFTER you spoke to me you wished you hadn’t…lol. BTW…it happened AGAIN yesterday and MySpace still hasn’t done anything about the 2nd one. Nevertheless, I am in porn and I LOVE it! All anyone has to do, besides watch one of my performances, is to ask Mike South or any of the other talent, producers or photographers that I have worked with to see if I am “really into it” or being subjected to something insidious. I have been told MANY times by multiple companies that I was the most professional and enjoyable shoot they ever did. Were they kissing my ass? Possibly, but why? Porn girls are a dime a dozen, they don’t need me per se. There are negative statistics that can be twisted and extrapolated to further ANY argument about ANY profession IMHO. I found it interesting when watching NBC’s “The Business of Porn” that despite showing a collection of what seemed to be well-adjusted, happy, business and entrepreneurially savvy women like Jesse Jane, in the next breath they talk about how 12% of most hotel revenue comes from in-room pay-per-view porn and then try to corellate the same old NOW argument that porn promotes violence against women? WTF? I will say this, last weekend at my neighbors football party my secret “got out”. Just to give you a little background, this was at a party of nothing but elementary and middle school teachers and cops, including my neighbor who has two young daughters. And guess what? Not only did they NOT turn up their nose at me, act indignant and morally righteous, or kick me out, they all acted fascinated and my neighbors husband asked me for my URLs and an autographed picture! You are right Julie, there is a need/demand which WILL be filled and I for one am HAPPY and THRILLED to be filled…er I mean fill the need.

  6. Alison, I had heard that they are a pushy group. So sad. And what a lame way to hijack someone’s spotlight. Some people have no shame!

    Thank you, Hunter. I think Miss Lubben is just as opportunistic as a “Christian” as she probably was as a prostitute, except eventually, you can’t cut it as a prostitute anymore. I think maybe she needed a new gig. I could be wrong but that’s what I smell when I step in it.

    Lindsey! Don’t be silly. It was a pleasure talking to you. Your writing is hysterical, you’re adorable… Nothing but a pleasure, although I think you should write about the internet thieves that steal people’s identities. You are a good comedic writer, I’d love to hear what you have to say on something that affects you personally that… No, now I know what I’ll write about next week, and I’ll wrap what we talked about into it. Still, you probably should write about it. 🙂

  7. Here’s the problem with the Pink Cross (and this problem could be fixed if Shelly was willing to actually do more than repeat her same speaches over and over and over again):

    The Pink Cross is very quick to tell women how horrible porn and the adult industries in general are and how if they turn to God, God will “save them” – BUT what Shelly seems to forget, is the concept of explaining to those that she wants to save, that “God helps those who HELP THEMSELVES”.

    Shelly in my opinion loves to inspire and “rally the troops” but has neglected to create a step by step outline as to how EXACTLY a woman is to re-merge into everyday mainstream (non-adult industry) society.

    I’ve listened to almost every single one of Shelly’s audio bites and I have to question as to whether SHE HERSELF has ever had to really “start from scratch” by herself. Has she ever held down a REGULAR job aside from working in the church that she essentially married into?

    Sorry, but it doesn’t seem to me like she has much of a plan for the hundreds of porn girls she wants to save, aside from suggesting that they marry a preacher’s son and breeding for the church.

    Initially I included her site on my site as a resource for “getting out of porn”, I’ve since changed my mind.

    At this point this woman needs to do an interview with you Julie, or SOMEONE because there are a few things I’d like cleared up about her true agenda.

    Sorry for the angry post, just tired of big mouths who have nothing to back up what they’re screaming about.

  8. I don’t necessarily think Shelley pushes Jesus on people. I don’t think she wants people to be Christians in order for them to get out of porn. She truly cares about people in this industry because she was one of them.

    Shelley’s a Christian. When you’re a Christian it’s not just a side hobby. It encompasses who you are and everything you do. She may do these things as a Christian person, but honestly… even if Shelley was Buddhist or Atheist, she’d still be doing this. Fact is, she cares about these people because she is one of them. She gets it.

    I’m sure some people are content where they are in this industry and don’t want to leave… I seriously doubt that Shelley would try to force them to leave. She’s not about that. She’s there if people want to leave, but she’s not just going to stand by on the sidelines. She is out there sharing her heart. She believes the people in porn were made for greater things. While some people may think porn is the greatest thing one can possibly be apart of, Shelley doesn’t feel that way. And that’s okay because we’re all given freedom to believe what we want.

    Here’s the thing… Pink Cross is a passionate organization that stands up against AN EXTREMELY HUGE and powerful organization. So obviously it’s going to have opposition. Obviously it’s going to have people bashing it and making up things about it. I mean, she’s trying to tell people that their hearts, underneath all the mess of porn, are made for greater things. But some people love porn and they think her words are ridiculous and religious and fanatical. Some people think she’s doing this for fame and money.

    But you know… we don’t know Shelley’s heart. Just like we don’t know most people in porn’s heart. We sort of ignore the heart and deal with the surface of all this stuff. But if we dig a little deeper we might see that Shelley truly loves and cares about women AND men in this industry. If they want out, she wants to help. And she’ll do whatever she can to help people see that porn is not as glamorous as people think. Yes, it’s sexual, provocative, exciting, all that — but life is about more than pleasure. Life’s not meant to be enjoyed, it’s meant to be lived. There’s a big difference.

    So… maybe if we all dig a little deeper and expose hearts instead of bodies… we’ll see the true colors. We’ll get under the masks and know what porn stars really feel. We’ll get under the sex and pleasure and find love.

    I think that’s what Shelley wants. To get deeper. To go where no one else wants to go. And she’s not forcing anything on anyone. Porn stars, addicts, producers, whoever — she’s just standing up for what she believes in and she’s there to be a shoulder or a hand if someone needs it.

    She loves.

    Some people spit on that love. That’s okay though. She’ll love anyway.


  9. I know Shelley will respond, but I just wanted to chime in, if I may. I’ve known this ministry for several years.

    The Love of God is first and foremost with Shelley and with Pink Cross. No judgements by them means no judgements, period. If somebody wants help, but has no desire, for or inclination toward, receiving Christ, they still get loved, and helped and cared for, by the Pink Cross, all the assistance they can give them, as far as I can tell. Moreover, I have never known Shelley nor the Pink Cross to ever force themselves on anybody, that defeats the purpose. That is not their heart, anyway. Its simply a being there for somebody who may be seeking escape or assistance, or who may not be aware that they have choices. When somebody is asleep on the path of a moving train, they need a wake up call. In addition, insult is never a tactic of theirs (and should never be one of any in the Body of Christ, though that is another show altogether), but walking in the true Love of God means that, as Holy Spirit leads, we will have to say the hard things that need to be said.

    I have only ever known Shelley, her husband, and the Pink Cross to be true lovers of Christ – loving others as He loves, walking in His Light. 1 Corinthians 13 (NLT) says:

    “4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.”

    Every word, every action, every thought taken, every step is done this way. To require any sort of pre-condition of others is not the way of Love. This is the heart of Pink Cross, and of Shelley Lubben. This is the difference between religion and relationship with the Most High.

  10. That is a very good question. I know from personal experience, that it can be very taxing mentally and emotionally, at first, because, really, if you are getting out that way, it’s a culture shock. I met my husband and quit and it was very difficult to reintegrate. Very good question.

  11. Oh wow! This is exciting. Looks like I am the first person to respond to this article that actually KNOWS Shelley Lubben! BINGO! Yes, I am on the Pink Cross team and I try to read these things with an open mind but seriously people–guessing about Shelley’s motives is really just going to wear you out. And an even more obvious thing to mention is that the answers to everything you asked Julie, are on her website. One thing Shelley is NOT is lacking on information that thoroughly explains exactly what she is about. The bottom line is that she cares about the people in the porn industry. Men AND women. I don’t know who will believe this because it is unheard of in our day and time…but this woman has given her life up to do this. She has a beautiful family and a wonderful husband who loves and supports her–and she has actually interrupted this peaceful, happy life of hers to go back into a place that was dark for her and MANY others who are there today. Yeah, it’s crazy but she is living it every day. I would like to defend our group as well because I don’t believe us to be pushy in ANY way. I never mentioned one thing about religion of any kind this weekend in NJ and to be honest, the fans and porn stars themselves bring up religion WAY before any of us asks about it. God plays a part in everyone’s lives in one way or another I don’t care what your thoughts are about it. And as we are standing there behind our booth and open it up for ANY question…you would be surprised at how many WANT to bring God into it! But, at the end of the day, here’s what goes on for me. I am a wife and mother–I leave my family, fly across the country, work from the time these conventions open til they close, get blisters on my feet and sore throat from repeating the same information over and over…and why do I do it? Why does each member of our team do it? And especially, why does Shelley Lubben do this?? Yeah, LOVE. It may be too simple to understand or believe, but we love EVERYONE in the industry. We really do.

  12. Although I am not a Christian, I do support what Pink Cross does. I can’t speak for Shelley, but I believe she would help anyone “out” of the industry with no conditions, including a religious one. As far as her “propaganda” goes it is nothing compared to PETA. She comes at you with statistics that do not lie, and stories straight from the ex-performers. The dead porn star video helps gets her point across. It is not just all about her. It may be hard to believe this, but there are people in this world who dedicate themselves to helping others, and expect nothing in return.

  13. My first time on this blog and I find it sad to see everyone fall in line with the author of it without much question. In life, I’m always skeptical when all the followers seem to have the exact same point of view without much variation–but that’s just me.

    I also find the thread of character assassination for people who have never met Shelley or who have not been approached by her directly, idol.

    And as for the lady who said, “I’m in porn and I love it?” Yeah I used to say the same thing, as did everyone who I worked with, when around potential customers or to sound empowered and strong, around non-industry folks. But folks…. pretty much everyone I worked with laughed off suggestions like that with, “Yeah right!” (Behind closed doors.) And the women who were like “I love it, I wouldn’t do anything else in the world,” and who were the out-and-proud ones…were all lesbians in real life and didn’t like men anyway. No insult to you ma’am, but come on. No one can see you and there is no camera here.

    I was in the industry for a decade and I have friends who were in it as long or longer. Sure we all had ego trips about it, it was quick money and alot of it, if you played your cards right…but most of us were boozing, and doing some other things which I won’t mention here. About 90% of us I’d say. And the ones who were sober many times were so emotionally and mentally disturbed …behind closed doors, they were always pondering ways to jump ship (regular dressing room conversation).

    I eventually became that person. And sweetie (you who wrote this blog), I couldn’t care less what stereotype this is confirming or not, the real life of a prostitute, porn actress, stripper or phone sex operator is nothing near what most think. It is not fun and games like it is made out to be. In fact for the majority of girls I worked with and came across…. the lack of that awareness on the part of the general public was the highlight of many, many, jokes between us. But then, in front of you, we’d put on our show face…. and yes, even when we weren’t working. Haven’t you ever heard of the doctor or lawyer whose identity becomes mixed in with what they are doing? Gee.

    Finally, getting to Shelly Lubben. She is actually a sweet and honest person. And she ought not to shut up because there ARE TOOOONS of women want to leave the industry. Again, it’s one of the things workers chat about on a serious level, on a regular, in every sex profession (I’ve done all except one). Shelley was a great support when I myself tried leaving the industry in fact still keeps in touch today. And this….she was “pushy,” thing? I don’t know who that chick met or what was filmed, so I can’t speak on it. But this was NOT my experience AT ALL. In fact I was so impressed with Shelley’s non-pushy and down-to -earth approach, I’ve been telling my family about her since. She wows me, as much for her demeanor as her work. This is really a caring person and the proof is there in the pudding when you speak to her. Her testimony and her straight shooter style…. is no act. So what God was her inspiration? Who else do you see reaching out to women in the industry with such commitment? And let me ask you this, for those of you who are so eager to love the industry…. would you want your daughter or son to go in to that? What would be your thoughts on that? Well, I know what most of you would be thinking, and you’re right.

    The sex industry is no ride in the hay, I don’t care what Belladonna, Jenna Jameson or what your favorite girl or guy (in it) said. They make followers which equals revenue, which in turn solidifies the industry by saying it’s wonderful. Plus, porn is a job whether you want to hear that or not. Who do you imagine would hire someone out and about calling it shit? Come on.

    So you wanna remain blind and hold unto your vice that’s your prerogative, but remember you signed up for the “ride,” and it is that (BS).

  14. Hi, Julie;

    I just read your article, and I must say, was very impressed with how well-written and thoughtful it was. Even so, I must vehemently disagree with most of what you said.

    I don’t think you’re being an asshole. You have legitimate questions, and I’d like to address them.

    I am also an ex-pornstar, and a member of the Pink Cross team. I am one of the girls that Shelley reached out to, and I am so grateful that she did. She reached out to me at a time when no one else would, and I was completely alone. I desperately needed love and support, and she helped me to recover through a very dark time in my life.

    I have known Shelley for several years, and can tell you from personal experience, and can vouch for others as well, that Shelley’s intentions are very sincere, and there are no alterior motives behind anything that she does. She does what she does because she cares very deeply about anyone who has suffered from being in the industry. The reason why she is able to help so many people is because her concern is genuine and real.

    We never try to push anyone out of the industry who is not ready to leave, but we make ourselves known to them so that they know they have somewhere they can come should they decide to leave.

    As far as the religious aspects of the Pink Cross — Yes, we are a Christian organization. I like to think of us as a ministry. We reach out to people with the love of Christ, but in no way do we push our agenda on anyone. Everyone has the free will to reject or accept Christianity. We know that, and we respect that. We also DO NOT withold help from ANYONE who may not agree with Christianity, and we do NOT JUDGE ANYONE.

    The reason that religion is such a vital part of the Pink Cross is because, for us, Jesus was the only one who brought true healing into our lives, and transformed us. It is because of Him that I am still alive, and I know that Shelley would say the same. I think it’s important to share our experiences with others so that they have the same opportunity…but if they reject Jesus, then of course we will not withold help, or love, from them. Jesus didn’t push His agends on anyone — why should we?

    As far as the Dead Pornstars video goes, that was compiled to raise awareness…not to get those already in the industry to leave. Those who want out already know they want out, and those who don’t want out aren’t going to be convinced by watching that video, anyway. On a personal note, I can tell you that the video really spoke to me, because I realize that I could have been any one of those girls. As you said, it is a lifestyle of total excess, not some cozy little existence.

    Of course we do not believe that everyone in the porn industry is doomed to die a horrendous death. There are plenty of people who have survived and gotten out of porn, and in no way are we suggesting that there is no hope. Certainly there is hope for everyone. We do know that there are many people in the industry that desperately want to get out. Once they make that decision, we step forward as a group of people who care, and who can help them. We reach out to those who feel they have no one else to turn to, because Lord knows that the porn industry isn’t going to help them transition out. Once they’re done, they’re done. We just try to let them know that they have somewhere to turn, and don’t have to go it alone.

    The girls in the industry have rights. They have the right to know what they are getting into, and although we don’t try to PUSH anyone out of the industry, we do try to let them know what the risks and hazards are, because the porn industry sure isn’t telling them.

    Anyhow, I could go on, but I just wanted to respond and clarify any misunderstanding of what the Pink Cross is all about.

  15. I think you bring up a lot of good points in this article. I only checked it out, bc I was made aware of it on Myspace. So, I wanted to check it out. My best friends family knows Shelley, bc they used to both live in the same area of town. I actually met her on MS. So, I read what she posts from time to time.

    Once you’re in this industry…it’s hard to get out for people. I think anything that’s done in excess is self-destructive…just look at all the STDs…that’s just one example. I’m not saying people don’t have the right to make their own choices. The reason she reaches out to people in this industry…is bc whether you believe it or not…God delivered her from it. She has a heart for these people, bc she’s been there, & she knows they can relate to her. You’re right that a lot of people single out this industry as being much worse than anything else, when there are other people that have the same issues in other industries. Shelley was never in a rock band. So that’s why you don’t see her trying to reach out specifically to people in that industry. It doesn’t mean she would refuse help to anybody that wants it…just bc it’s not the porn industry.

    A lot of people have stereotypes when it comes to christianity. A lot of people…especially these days…have a hard time believing in anything supernatural. When people are addicted to anything they often are practicing that addiction for the rest of their life…until it either kills them…unless they can quit. God delivered her, & healed her of an STD. So, anybody in her position would want to share how they were able to overcome that addiction. She’s not, to my knowledge, trying to force her beliefs on people. She offers it to those that want help. She does go to events, & set up a booth…to offer help to those that want it. Of course she would help people if they weren’t ready to accept God. I just feel that most people will have a hard time doing so without Him.

    Anytime people do something in God’s name…people are always quick to dismiss these people as judgemental, hypocritical loons. That’s ridiculous, bc whether you’re a christian or not…doesn’t make you perfect. Anybody that accuses somebody of being judgemental…is being judgemental themselves. Nobody knows someone’s heart. People see the mistakes people make, but not their heart intent, which is much more important. I’m not trying to come of as judgemental, bc believe me…I’m not perfect either. I just care too much to stand by & not share the truth. I do think it’s important to check out things for ourselves, & not just accept it bc that’s what others are doing. I just wished people would see for themselves, & not just go by what society tells them is true.

    I just want to reiterate…I’m not trying to step on anybodies toes. People are going to ultimatley make their own decisions. I’m just responding in peace & love…to some of the questions about my friend Shelley. I’m no better than anybody else. I hope all who haven’t found peace…will find it.

  16. Wow! This is great. I love to get differing opinions, and just to clear up a mention that my questions can be answered through Shelley’s blog, I prefer to ask questions from an actual person, so I sent a request for an interview and have gotten no response. I’m a writer, and am obviously curious about the whole process, so… I write. This is great!

    My point, really, is to ask the hard questions about the organization because, as I state in the beginning of my post, I want to be on the side of religion. I just don’t always agree with the way it is implemented, and I don’t agree with the video, but I was a performer, as well, and have perspective of my own.

    I want to direct this at Ashley: what I always propose in situations where there are extremes, is finding a middle ground. I don’t think one has to be insanely for or against anything. Some people are content in the industry, not because their pure hedonists, but because they are content with who they are and have made a conscious decision to be in the industry. Every job comes with risks, but some people don’t mind the risk. Also, I understand that being a Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, etc… is a way of life. but it’s a personal preference and not necessarily a bridge to connect with everyone – some people, but not everyone… and therefore faulty, for that reason. It is actually alienating to use religion to reach out to people, because the truth is, religion doesn’t have to enter the picture at all. One person can reach out to another person without needing validation. My questions are very much geared toward why the alienating personal preference is even necessary. I think it’s an important point, but I’m not interested in the answer if it doesn’t come from the heart and is just a lot of recited quotes from the Bible, because I have been through that already in my life. I think it’s a very interesting topic, and I think spirituality is necessary and useful, but a truly helpful person allows room for differences.

    I do hope Shelley helps from her heart, but I wonder if the religious overtones are necessary. I’ll never agree with the video, you can’t convince me that that is okay, but that’s because I was a performer, too, and I know all about working in front of the camera, being a prostitute, I have friends in the industry, as well, and it is a very unfair representation of the industry, but again, I’m speaking from my own experience.

    It can be hard to leave the business and reintegrate into society, but there is a way and if there is a helpful way, I don’t necessarily think that one should have to wave their spiritual belief flag to make the point. I suppose someone who is Islamic could start the same kind of organization to help get men and women out of the industry, but again, why use that when it’s enough that you are a caring human being and you want to help another human being.

    And still, this is not Shelley responding. Although, I do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. 😀

    And my questions have not been answered by the person I’m addressing. You say she’s not pushy, but Alison wrote,

    “Pink Cross does get pushy with women who aren’t looking for their help. Jayden James was featured on an episode of MTV’s “True Life” series called “I’m addicted to porn.” while they were filming her at the AVN show, Shelley Lubben and crew came to her hotel room and actively attempted to get her to quit the business.

    Sounds like that’s recorded evidence of the group being pushy. I am only suggesting that rather than beat women in the industry down even more by parading religion and what they shouldn’t be doing in their face, why not just talk about it, write about it, get an awareness going that corrects people’s attitude about women and sex? I’m already beginning a post for next week that I think everyone joining in will enjoy. Shelley may be out to convert people to Christianity, but I’m out to revert a person or persons back to being a humanist – not capitalized because it’s not a group, it’s a state of being. I want the same things that Shelley wants, but I want to see the change from the ground up, not by further attacking the women. We need to change the parents, the people who watch porn. And not change them, but… illuminate the fact that they could be more loving and respectful of their wives, daughters, sisters, etc… Women get a bad rap in this country, especially the sex worker. There will always be sex work, you can’t change that, but you can reach people who watch it and you can effect whether or not they care about the human being they’re watching. My intentions are a little more practical than Shelley’s, but again, I think the organization could be doing great things without the “death Video”, without being pushy, and without religion.

    Thank you everyone for caring enough to comment!

  17. Oh, and thank you “cpcatax” for pleasantly trying to clarify that Sheley does help everyone regardless of their personal beliefs. That was a helpful response and I appreciate it. 🙂

  18. To “warthruart” – I find it sad to see everyone fall in line with the author of it without much question. In life, I’m always skeptical when all the followers seem to have the exact same point of view without much variation–but that’s just me.

    Isn’t that actually what happens in church? Aren’t you just suppose to “fall in line with the [preacher]… without much question…”? Very interesting thing to point out, actually…

    This so so great! I was so upset that I couldn’t sleep, but thank goodness! I would never have been able to respond like this if I were dozing. I have to really read everything a few times because I’m sleepy, but this is awesome!!!

  19. Oh! And I want to say one more thing, most everyone is thoughtful, even-tempered and responsive, and I appreciate that. I’ve read some other industry blogs and there are some pretty hateful and gratuitously foul people out there, but this has bee very pleasant to read and be apart of.

    To Ashley: “So… maybe if we all dig a little deeper and expose hearts instead of bodies… we’ll see the true colors.

    That is judgmental. It’s a person’s right and prerogative to expose their bodies – but you’re right about exposing the heart. The heart, to me, is more important than the body, but the mind is equal. Never relinquish control of your ability to ask questions and find the truth about anything. And no one here is trying to “spit on Shelley’s love.” We are all in unison the ways you guys are, about asking these questions because everyone needs to be in check when they gain popularity. Also, too, we’re talking about people here who are friends, so we speak freely. Don’t get offended by what you read here. I’m not offended by anyone speaking for Shelley. We are all adults… I hope. 😀

    Oh wait… “warthruart” – are you suggesting Lindsey Lovehands does not enjoy being in the industry because she’s not a lesbian?

    “And as for the lady who said, “I’m in porn and I love it?” Yeah I used to say the same thing, as did everyone who I worked with, when around potential customers or to sound empowered and strong, around non-industry folks. But folks…. pretty much everyone I worked with laughed off suggestions like that with, “Yeah right!” (Behind closed doors.) And the women who were like “I love it, I wouldn’t do anything else in the world,” and who were the out-and-proud ones…were all lesbians in real life and didn’t like men anyway. No insult to you ma’am, but come on. No one can see you and there is no camera here.”

    That’s a horrible thing to say! You can’t speak for her. If she doesn’t really enjoy it, that’s a realization for her to come to. You are forcing your opinion and that’s not right.

    Nice comment April. Good to know. Although, anyone could “end up” dying a horrendous death regardless of their job. Who was just murdered by their pastor husband? Felicia Tang! How horrible is that?!

    Also, I don’t know what you guys think other people think, but I don’t know one person who thinks being in porn is glamorous. Seriously, I don’t think even the most naive people would trick themselves into thinking sex work is glamorous at all. That’s just my take on that.

    To Ash: I understand that people need their guidance and reasons for the things they do, from somewhere. I understand that “supernatural” things are a factor in our existence, and while I love the power of words, words are really tricky when it comes to expressing the human heart. A cat, for instance, does not need English to know how to exist and be a cat – to naturally be perfect – so when anyone uses words that refer to very specific things about the “supernatural”, that’s where my internal radar goes haywire. “I love you.” Anyone can say that. Maybe my motivation is a dead relative and deep down I feel that my grandmother is speaking love through me, but I don’t have to verbalize anything more than, “I love you,” to get to the gold of my intentions. The moment I elaborate I feel that that is what betrays the emotion. You don’t need validation to love someone. You don’t need a reason. I don’t know any better way to say that. If you’re from another place the words are different, the history is different, the God becomes gods and goddesses, so why does it matter to dress it up at all? Why even use it if it could put just one person off from receiving “love”. And love is a very thrown around word.

    I just wanted to really take the time after my initial response to reread the comments because there are so many and so many interesting points. I do care about the responses to my writing, so it is important that I listen when I ask questions. I would still love to interview Shelley Lubben. I am fascinated and would love to ask her, woman-to-woman, ex-sex-worker-to-ex-sex-worker, person-to-person, how everything evolved and why it is driven by religion. I would love to ask, because after this, I know I can ask from a truly curious place. Obviously there are people who care about her, and that does count for something.

  20. I have always said, be it pink cross or xxxchurch or even the Lions club, if someone can prevent someone who shouldnt be in this business anyway from coming into this business then they are actually doing the industry a favor.

    This biz is NOT for everyone, to be successful long term requires you to be very different than most people are, you must have no guilt about it and you must approach as a business and not a quick fix to a financial or drug or other problem…this biz will only make that worse.

    As such if someone can find an alternative that is better for them I applaud the person affording that alternative as well as the person taking it

    can I get an AMEN LOL

  21. Hey Julie, just wanted to comment about the MTV interview with Jayden James. Shelley was asked to be a part of that interview. Both parties were in agreement. If I remember correctly, they were following Jayden around and even had her parents give their concerns about their daughter being in porn. Shelley was just an extension of that concern and this is why MTV put them together. It would be unfair to say that the Pink Cross team is pushy based on this one interview where both parties are given a few short minutes to cram in highlighted information. Thanks : )

  22. That is a good point, Mike. It really is not for everyone.

    Also, I think my question about religion is an eternal question for me. In that respect Shelley’s organization is a symbolic point for my never-ending question about the different kinds of “faith”, but I will probably have to just resolve myself to knowing religious organizations are not for me, lest I turn into the pushy person, myself.

    My passion is in asking questions, and religions seem to answer every possible question in a way that my scientific mind just cannot understand.

    Thanks, Mel, for adding that. So, agreed through MTV and Jayden’s parents, right? Isn’t that still being set up? From Jayden’s perspective, of course… How did that turn out?

  23. Never mind. I think I will always question religion. It’s too burning a question on my mind, raised Southern Baptist and all…

    Hell, I can’t even claim Buddhism or Atheism. Once spirituality is defined into actuals words of any kind, it stales, to me. Also, I think anyone who enters the industry and then quits has to work really hard to redefine who they are, and I think that is a horrible thing to have to do, but only because society has these incredibly set lines drawn around certain things. It doesn’t seem productive that we are so extreme about sex and spirituality. That kind of rigidity breeds hate and misunderstanding. Seems so terribly unnecessary to me.

    Maybe Mike’s right. It doesn’t matter how people are pulled from the industry when they don’t need to be in it, but I think I would like to feel like I’m part of a group, too. I’d love to share similar thoughts with people like me, but I just don’t meet people like me, so I write. My whole life it is me alone with my thoughts, thinking no one else really sees things the way I do. Of course this is not true, but then that means people like me are alone with their thoughts, as well. There’s just no winning that one, I guess. 😀

    Yes, maybe Mike’s right. Maybe the philosophical turn to this, for me, is that everyone has their experiences to go through, and it doesn’t matter what it is called, or who is attributed to the process, who is worshipped or loathed, it’s all still the same process and the point is to see beyond the obvious things and just take from it the essence. Sounds like Shelley helps people regardless of their personal beliefs, and that is really the main thing. Maybe it does automatically alienate someone like myself, but maybe I shouldn’t really care. Although… I do. I care, too. I care about people. Why does it have to be about religion? Damn it… I cannot get over it.

  24. First off, on the comment about the Pastor’s wife killed by her husband…. staticstically, this is a rarity of the highest order. So comparison in that regard is comparing apples to Monster trucks. It is such major hyperbole, and ultimately does nothing to really answer Shelley anyway!

    Additionally, statistically speaking, the things she says about the danger to the health of People in the industry is true. I do not see anyone arguing those figures.

    No one hides the risks of being a race car driver to the aspiring drivers. The videos of the wrecks are spectacular enough. They do however take every precaution to make sure that the drivers are safe, with all of the safety equipment they can muster….

    I do not see this in the porn industry. I am someone who has had a life long struggle with Porn. I as exposed to it by my father at 7 years old. He thought it was funny to embarass me in front of one of his friends.

    I do not blame the industry any more than I blame the alcohol companies for alcoholics, in the sense that availability is not tacit permission to overuse, but I think that the images and portrayals of porn stars and their lifestyles are damaging to them, and to the expectations of those outside the industry to the people in our lives or ourselves.

    Furthermore, if you believe with all your heart that someone is on a sinking ship… you don’t swim over and say “hey, how you doin? Want one of these here life rafts?” all casual and watch them drown. Shelley believes, as I do that this ship sinks for all those who ride its waters, and that the end result is the rampant drug use and dangers therein, lowered self esteem, violence and abuse, and more. IF you really believe that, do you casually just watch this happen, or do you get off your ass and do something?

    She found a life raft in Jesus…. If somebody found a way out on another raft, she would still be elated they were out. She just knows how secure her raft is.

    Finally, if you read her site there are testimonials from men in the industry. It is not just the women she is reaching out to.

    I have to love Shelley for what she is doing on all sides of this issue. Will she be perfect? No. But I think it is sincerity and compassion that motivates her. I wish that the love she has for people in this industry was achoed more in the church. Too many do act like the Pharisees with the prostitute that washed Jesus feet. “IF he knew what kind of woman this was, he wouldn’t let her do that!”

    He knows. We know. and e love you still. I really do hope those of you that really want out, know you can make it. Shelley is one person waiting to help!

    Sincere thanks to for having this blog and llowing such diversity, as well as being open, inclusive, and honest in approaching this subject.

  25. Hey thanks Julie for the post. I’m glad my team was able to help answer some of your questions. You may also find much of this information at or my personal web site at It’s important to me that people in the porn industry understand our hearts and motivation. Why we do what we do.

    Now, I’d love the opportunity to answer some of your questions myself:

    You asked: “Why the religious overtones are even a factor in this organization”?

    There are no overtones. There are no hints of religion in our organization. We’re not trying to hint about our faith. We are bold about it! We are a faith based organization empowered by the God of Jesus Christ to reach out to and demonstrate the love of Christ to a group of people who society often regards as throwaway people.

    Even the Surgeon General C. Everett Koop said that about adult industry workers:

    “We have an industry [adult film] that is making billions of dollars a year, is spreading to cable television and to the Internet, and yet their employees are considered to be throwaway people.”

    This is very sad. People in the adult film industry are NOT throwaway people. I know because I am one of them and I was able to overcome eight years of sex industry abuse, substance abuse, mental disorders, post traumatic stress disorder, early cervical cancer, Genital Herpes, HPV and more. And let me tell you, the Church did not physically help me overcome these disorders. It was me and God in Tacoma, Washington, where it rains 300 days a year where I had no sunny beach and no porn parties to run away and hide from my problems. God literally loved me enough to take me out of the porn industry and put me in a place where I could “Be Still” and learn from Him. And I was so sick and tired of being sick and tired that I said yes to God. I knew about God since I was a child so I felt He had really let me down but I had nowhere else to turn. And again, I was REALLY tired. The Bible teaches this about the love of Christ,

    “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.”

    Awwww, rest. Now that was too good to pass up for some girl who had been surviving in the sex industry eight years who usually stayed up all night to party and pull tricks!

    We even saw that at the Exxxotica Expo in NJ this last weekend where girls were drunk and wasted falling over and required our assistance up to their hotel rooms. They looked tired too. I’m pretty sure our “religious” organization was the only one caring for them at 3 am in the morning! I asked Ron Jeremy if he cared about one of the girls we were helping and he asked where the girl’s “handler” was. Handler? Why do women and in porn require handlers if they don’t need any help?

    I digress. Next statement I feel led to address:

    “For some reason people don’t search for their own inner moral compass to lead them.”

    Um, my moral compass must have been off because all I did was get wasted on Jack Daniels, smoke weed like cigarettes, have an addiction to meth while risking my life playing Russian roulette in the porn industry and pulling tricks with porn consumers and porn producers. My moral compass must have been off because no matter WHAT I tried, I couldn’t get out of porn and make a better life for myself. MAYBE I needed a higher power with a better compass. (smile)

    You also wrote: “It seems a sad existence if everything is so finite and predictable.”

    I’m the LEAST predictable person you will ever meet. I am supernatural, always creating, always inspired by God to inspire others. I love to laugh and you NEVER KNOW what I will do next. Loving and knowing the Creator of heaven and earth is awe-inspiring and exciting! I am one of the MOST energetic people you will ever know. Hey, here’s a thought Julie, why don’t you get to know me first and then write your post?

    On to your other questions:

    “One obvious question is, do you only help women?”

    No, we help men as well but more women come to us for help than men. About 75% of adult film workers are women so thus they are the majority we help. But yes we have helped some great men!!


    “Do you just let people come to you, and if not, do you go to industry functions and just stand to the side as someone available to help, or do you and/or your people actually push yourselves on industry people who may not want your help, people who are perfectly happy with their lives?”

    We offer everything FREE to people in the porn industry. Free gifts, thoroughly researched and up to date education, along with smiles and hugs. We do purchase a booth and put our gifts and education on the booth to attract visitors. We do walk around the booths and meet and greet and hand out gift bags. Some girls do turn us down but most enjoy the gifts and are grateful for the education and especially THAT WE CARED. We rarely have time to talk about much more in that setting as you know the music is blaring and the fans are waiting. It’s a quick touch from us to say “You are loved.”

    So as you must realize, we can’t be pushy. Otherwise, no one would invite us back and many shows do invite us back so that pretty much speaks for itself!

    Also, I saw the video of “Dead Porn Stars”, with title cards of how they died. That video is very insensitive because it just further stereotypes the sex worker as someone destined to die of AIDS, alcoholism, overdose, suicide… if they don’t “get out now”.

    Well, we feel porn is very insensitive and destroys our nation with their videos. So, I could just do what the porn industry does and claim “Free Speech.” But for the sake of addressing your question, that video is full of truth and doesn’t nearly represent the astounding numbers of deaths in the porn industry. I physically made that video and got up to about 80 porn stars and knew I couldn’t go anymore. There are actually hundreds of women and men, straight and gay who have died due to the negative effects of the porn industry. Not only the amount of deaths, but the ages of death are astounding!

    When the deaths of 129 porn performers over a period of roughly 20 years were analyzed it was discovered that were an unusually large number of premature deaths from such causes as drugs, suicide, murder, alcohol abuse, accidental death, and disease. It was also discovered that the average life expectancy of a porn performer is only 37.43 years whereas the average life expectancy of an American is 78.1 years.

    Death doesn’t lie. So, no we are not stereotyping, we are educating and exposing the truth about the dangers of the porn industry and especially giving honor where honor is due. These people died and we want to remember them. Death tends to forget us. We didn’t want that to happen to these precious lives.

    Next question:

    “The most important question is, if you are professing to care about a group of people, someone who wants them to get out of a bad situation, and your basic claim in helping them is that you don’t judge them, if they want your help but are not willing to “accept God as their savior”, do you help them, anyway?”


    “Maybe this all really about you?”

    No it’s not about me. Unfortunately there isn’t much of me left. No one does this kind of outreach and doesn’t feel the negative effects of it in his own life. You hold some porn stars in your arms while they vomit on you for a couple of hours and get back to me. You watch one of the girls you are reaching out to shrivel down to 90 pounds due a cocaine addiction and tell me how broken your heart is. You listen to hundreds of women talk about violent sexual abuse as children and try to sleep at night. Listen to them talk about their porn pimps and how they are threatened if they don’t do certain sex acts. I could go ON AND ON. Privates, abuse and hazardous work conditions on the set, drugs and alcohol given to women to perform. Heck, I know the names of the doctors who prescribe vicodin to women so they can handle hardcore scenes. I’VE HELD THE PRESCRIPTION BOTTLE IN MY HAND WHILE HELPING A GIRL VOMIT AFTER AN OVERDOSE OF 21 VICODIN! AND SHE WAS A WELL KNOWN PORN STAR! And she is NOT the only one I’ve helped during an overdose. I don’t write about it much as we offer confidentiality and will not name names. But trust me, everything I say is true and I CAN PROVE IT!

    Besides, even the porn stars admit this stuff online right here at mikesouth, lukeisback, adultfyi, xxxporntalk and more. It’s not hard to find porn stars who admit they use drugs, have stds, experience abuse on set and engage regularly in prostitution. So, maybe it breaks our hearts to constantly hear about it and inspires us to reach out to these precious people?

    My team works long hard hours, is dedicated in the face of persecution, reaches out passionately and compassionately, continues to stand for what they believe in and actually DOES what they say they will do and we don’t quit. We don’t ever quit.

    We don’t quit on people we love. Our God taught us that. You may not believe in God but He believes in you!

    Love you Julie!

    PS: If you need more info, you can find whatever you need at or email [email protected]. We would love to help you with other questions you may have.

  26. It’s obvious you care about people. Anybody who doubts that should watch your interview with Tanner Mayes. I really admired how you stepped up and offered to be there for her and someone she could come too. You took a personal interest in her and her well-being. That is love.

    I am also someone who has helped Shelley and has spent a lot of time with her and her family over the past couple years I think I can help answer some of the questions. I will try to do what I can to answer your questions. The Pink Cross does not try to only help women. We have helped several men in the industry and a bunch who are porn addicts. I’m one of the latter myself. Shelley Lubben has been a great friend. I have seen her reach out to people and go above and beyond to show how much she cares and loves them. She sets a great example and I strive to do the same when I am given a task to do. It is most definitely not about her. I can tell you for a fact that I’m a better person because of Shelley and the Pink Cross.

    I do realize that our belief in God will sometimes make people a bit skeptical or apprehensive of us and raise many questions. I understand why things are as this way. The Christians we tend to see on TV a lot of the time, from the cult in Kansas that go to the soldiers funerals with their “Thank God for IED’s” and “God Hates Fags” signs to the ones who tell people that they need to take a leap of faith and that leap of faith includes sending them money, upset me too. They make it hard for us and anybody who claims to be a Christian for that matter. It’s similar to how Osama Bin Laden has made it hard for any Muslim in America.

    The reason Shelley talks about God is because God helped her a lot to get through the hell she went through as she transitioned out of the business. For her not to talk about God and how He helped her would be like you not talking about your husband when you tell the story about how you transitioned out of the business. To do so would be to leave out an key piece of her story. Even though we believe in God and Jesus, one’s belief does not have any effect on whether or not we help them. We do not require that someone believe in God. It doesn’t matter if they are Jewish, Hindi, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheist, Wiccan, etc. We strive to meet people where they are at and show them love. That is very important because every person’s situation situation is different. But no, we do not shove religion down their throat. We do not want to alienate anybody.

  27. By the way Mike, THANK YOU for this blog and your open-mindedness. We appreciate you and all you do. A couple of the ladies we have helped have said nice things about ya!

  28. What a great article, and some interesting responses. Having known someone who was in porn and decided to get out, with not many available options to create a new income, I can sympathize with those needing a helping hand to get out, and am glad to see there is an organization that is willing to help. As far as religion goes, it’s not for me, but if a belief makes someone else’s life better, and they aren’t trying to convert the natives, then I’m all for it. So, for the most part, I’m in line with Mike’s post and I certainly understand where Julie is coming from.

    With that said, the dead porn star video is a sick and twisted spin that is nothing but deceiving, and quite frankly, disrespectful to the dead. You should probably learn a bit more about statistical sampling, before you try to convince people porn has a higher drug usage or suicide rate. I would expect a religious organization to have more respect for the deceased, if nothing else.

    Though most responses were very respectful on the surface, there were some things embeded in them that caught my eye:

    ashleymw says: “Life’s not meant to be enjoyed”

    – Wow, what do you say to that? Keep telling people that, and you’re most likely going to get more suicides. How many drug overdoses and suicides were there last year that were Christians versus those that were porn stars…even as a percentage based calculation to be fair? Hey, lets find God, so we can believe that life isn’t meant to be enjoyed…what a selling point! How many religions tell you this life isn’t to be enjoyed, it’s the afterlife that is meant to be enjoyed? I immediately think of things like Kamikaze pilots and Al Qaeda.

    cpcatax says: “When somebody is asleep on the path of a moving train, they need a wake up call.”
    – Why is it the religious always seem to need to post an assumptive insult right in the middle of their statements like this? We care, we care, we care…SUBTLY INSULT THOSE YOU ARE SAYING YOU CARE ABOUT…we care. It happens in almost all of the responses against Julie’s article, even when they are being respectful, they always slip something judgmental in (even when condemning being judgmental.) The point is, who are you to decide that someone else needs a wakeup call? Isn’t your God supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent…maybe he knows when to make the call? Or is he channeling through you…like many serial killers have said he did with them?

    mel says: “she has actually interrupted this peaceful, happy life of hers to go back into a place that was dark for her and MANY others who are there today”
    -So, what you’re saying is she really didn’t even get out of porn herself! Isn’t she actually putting porn as a priority in her life again? You are saying she is interrupting a happy family life, to be addicted to an aspect of Porn again under the guise of helping others. Maybe her heart has pure intentions, and maybe she can help some of those who want to get out to be able to do so…but she was out and obviously chose to come back. Even if you are addicted to fighting porn, you’re still addicted to porn…plain and simple !!!

    ash says: “I just wished people would see for themselves, & not just go by what society tells them is true.”
    -Funny, but that is exactly what my major problem with religion is, most followers go by what they are told. Why do you think they use the term Flock?…because you act like sheep. We could all stand to believe less of what we hear without question, and do some research on topics to form our own beliefs!

    I agree with Julie that true help should not come with strings attached…otherwise you’re just taking advantage of someone in a bad situation and using it as leverage to get them to be what you want them to be or do what you want them to do. Maybe the Pink Cross does not push religion and just offers help, but why then do all those affiliated with them, who are posting responses, seem to keep making religious references?

    I have yet to read a single comment about HOW the Pink Cross goes about helping those who need it…isn’t the HOW they help part more important than the WHY they chose to help part? All I get from this is that RELIGION is the HOW.

  29. I’m not one of these people that sits around & reads me Bible all the time, & beats people over the head w/ it. I do have a solid knowledge of what’s in it though. It says in there that for those that haven’t accepted it…that they won’t understand. There’s no way we can totally understand everything about God w/ our limited human minds. There’s a lot of things in life that I don’t understand such as physics, or how electricity travels through a wire & causes a light bulb to light up. That doesn’t mean that those things don’t exist. There’s a lot of things that we can’t see that we know exist, such as air & wind. Just bc I don’t understand those things doesn’t mean they are any less real.

    I think people get confused bc of all the religions out there. That is something that I think everybody has wondered about at some point or another. That maybe they’re all the same God, bc some people just believe what they’re taught to believe. Even though there does seem to be a lot of smiliarities in these religions. There are a couple of major differences in these that makes all the difference. I think a lot of things in life are just put here as a distraction to get people off the right track. My point is that Shelley talks about Christianity, not religion, bc it was through that she’s where she is today. People try too hard to understand everything when we as humans can’t totally understand everything. Knowledge is great, but faith has to come into place at some point, & yes…there is proof that christianity is real. I’m not saying that there aren’t a few people that have maybe been able to get over any kind of addiction without a form of religion. Shelley’s using this method, bc this is what she’s found to be true

    Yes, anybody can say I love you, & I believe that most don’t even know what it is. I love you though…whether you understand it or believe it. Thanks Julie for being open minded about this though, & listening to both sides.

  30. Cocaine Incorporated- I understand where you’re coming from, but please don’t assume that all christians are just blindly following something that they don’t know anything about.
    You have a good point, but I’m a very analytical person…so believe me when I say I put a lot of thought into everything I do. Some people may fall into the category like you said. My point was that I was saying that people do need to decide what they believe for themselves, & not just believe it bc others say that’s what they should believe. I’m saying that I agree w/ the point brought up on here…that people need to accept what they’ve found to be true…not what they’re told to be true. My point though is that I have thought for myself, & I have found this to be true. So, I don’t fall into that category…like some might.

  31. Wow Shelly! “Hey, here’s a thought Julie, why don’t you get to know me first and then write your post?”

    Nice insult right in the middle of your deceivingly sugary post. It seems to me she contacted you to do just that, and you didn’t respond.

    I actually have much less respect for you now than before I was able to read your initial post. You’re obviously very passive/ aggressive by nature. They are right, you’ve just traded one addiction for another and you try to make yourself out to be some type of Martyr.

    How dare you imply that you are the only one that has seen suffering, or tried to help others in those situations.

  32. Cocaine Inc — You forgot the rest of my sentence. Life is not meant to be enjoyed, it’s meant to be LIVED.

    Living involves JOY, fun, excitement, pleasure, rejection, pain, acceptance, love…

    My point is… we are not here solely to give and receive pleasure. We’re here to love, to live, to laugh, to comfort, to cry, to BE. And with God, even the most painful things can bring joy. Beauty after rain. Growth after the storm.

  33. ash: I really meant no insult to you directly. Again, if you’re religious beliefs make your life better, and you’ve thought through all the reasons you’ve chosen that path and still decided to take it (which it sounds like you have) then I’m all for it. You had a nice post, I just found the one comment very ironic.

  34. ashleymw: sorry but the last part of the sentence was irrelevant really and didn’t change the point. Why not just say “Life is meant to be lived.” Why even say it’s not to be enjoyed at all? What purpose did that serve in the statement? Your last post seems to stress clearly that life was, in fact, meant to be enjoyed…you had a list of things that provide enjoyment. So what prompted you to even make the part of the statement “Life is not meant to be enjoyed” at all? You just seem to be contradicting yourself, so I’m wondering where the initial statement came from. Maybe you are quoting someone else, and hadn’t exactly thought it through?

    And you don’t need a god for painful things to also bring joy! There’s no direct correllation there like you suggest. If that is what it takes for you, then that’s wonderful, and I’m not trying to take that away from you. You certainly shouldn’t let my disbelief shake your faith. But as for me, I think life was meant to be enjoyed! And no, that doesn’t mean drugs or polygamy for me, but actually most of the things you described. For the record, Cocaine Incorporated is a record label…not an intent to promote drug use and we donate a portion of our profits to drug and rehab causes. I really do hope you are enjoying your life, with or without a god’s help.

  35. You can’t expect a vegetarian to eat meat…..

    In the same sense it would be asinine to expect a non believer or someone who has never really experienced a relationship with Christ or as you so eloquently put it “The man in the sky” to understand or even accept the possibility of having total freedom and salvation from such a wonderful, caring, passionate spiritual father who even in our most sinful and undeserving moments gives us Agape love. (Unconditional love)

    My name is Jan E. Meza or better known to the adult industry as ex porn star Elizabeth Rollings and this is my point of view. As a society we usually instantaneously fear or doubt the unknown so you find yourself questioning how can it be that a group of ex porn stars, strippers, prostitutes and addicts can actually love and genuinely care for a people that so blatantly go against everything they believe in?? How can The Pink Cross Foundation love porn stars and porn addicts male and female alike even though they might curse them and threaten them or completely ignore them?? One simple answer whether it be the most fictitious one in your minds, God! Yes God!!!! Even the most acknowledged atheist knows John 3:16…

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

    So what honestly drives Shelley Lubben, The Pink Cross and me? No it is not propaganda, it is not a void that needs to be fed with some sort of self righteousness, and it is NOT mendacity. Look closely you don’t want to miss this, come in real close and pay attention, are you ready?? WE LOVE PORN STARS AND PORN ADDICTS AND ALL SEX INDUSTRY WORKERS WITH THE LOVE THAT GOD FIRST LOVED US WITH!!!! Yup that’s it in a nut shell!! Why is that so hard to believe?? Do you think we’re gluttons for punishment? Do you for one second believe we like to be so persecuted for the cause? But… if we don’t do this who will? Will you step forward to make sure regulations are being followed according to OSHA on porn sets? Will you put a condom on a porn performer before a scene? Will you make sure that the men and women in porn are not being sexually, mentally, physically or emotionally abused? Will you be the one to take the drugs or alcohol away from them so that they don’t accidentally overdose or unintentionally kill someone else?

    Have you ever held a porn star in your arms while she cried because she could no longer have children at the age of 22 after having her cervix removed? Have you ever held a porn star after she just ingested enough alcohol to kill a horse, or held her hair back while she vomited profusely and screamed out for help? We have! You may love to hate us or hate to love us in either case we’ll keep on keeping on because it’s not about appeasing the few, but about helping the many!!

    Now let’s really get to the met of the matter at hand…

    1.) Do you only help women?
    No, we help men and women; if you were to go to The Pink Cross website you would see that we help both.
    2.) Do you just let people come to you, and if not, do you go to industry functions and just stand to the side as someone available to help, or do you and/or your people actually push yourselves on industry people who may not want your help, people who are perfectly happy with their lives?
    Men and women come to us via the website and or our own personal pages like Myspace, Facebook etc… We also go into the many various adult conventions (which we’re actually invited to) and reach out with love, gifts, informational tools regarding STD’s, adult performers legal rights (yes they do have many that they are unaware of) porn industry statistics, and yes Christian books, cd’s, pamphlets etc… We are not pushers of anything, we are a resource for porn performers and porn fans alike. If an adult performer does not feel they want to leave the industry than we want to make sure they know their rights as an employee (not an independent contractor) of the adult entertainment industry. We are Christians, but just the same we are humanitarians! We care about the people in the industry and do not want the abuses to continue. How many people on this blog have actually been to The Pink Cross website and have read the stories?? Hmmmm I wonder if the responses to this post would still be so biased. Anyway, I digress onto question #3.

    3.) If they want your help but are not willing to “accept God as their savior”, do you help them, anyway?
    Hmmmmm, considering that we go into porn conventions where I would say about 99.9% of the people there are NOT Christians and are sometimes even practicing Satanists, I think that answer would be yes. It is not our jobs to pass judgment, in the Bible God accepted us for who we were and loved us no matter what, if someone is a true Christian they love one another without judgment even if that person is living in sin, God calls us to love and reach out to them to show them that they are destined for greater things than the sin they are living in. If you say you are happy with your lifestyle we still love you, we will pray for you and we will be there if you ever need us. To better understand us go to The Pink Cross website or better yet pick up a Bible and read it! Here is a verse to consider when you question why we do what we do…
    Matthew 25:34-40
    34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
    37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
    40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
    I wish I could just snap my fingers and make you understand why we love, help and continue to reach out the way we do, but I can’t. I’m not writing this to justify anything, I don’t have to answer up to anyone but God, but I want you to understand his love, God wants you ( yes you to Julie) to understand his love, it isn’t his will that anyone be left out. If you were to truly know us than you would know that religion is NOT our driving force, we do not alienate people who do not believe in Christ and that we look down on religion because it is not about that, but about a relationship with Christ. If Christ had to die on the cross for just one person, we know in our hearts he still would have and in just the same way if we can save one life from drug addiction, STD’s, being sexually, physically and mentally abused, then we will continue to do so. Oh and about your comparison regarding the music industry, porn has much higher statistics surrounding death by STD’s, drugs and suicide and considering the music industry is at least10x larger than the porn industry….well, numbers don’t lie. As a matter of fact since your readers seem to be unaware of what the numbers really are let me help you out with some statistics…

    Since 2004, LA County Public Health received reports of 2,396 cases of Chlamydia, 1,389 cases of gonorrhea, and 5 syphilis cases among AFI (Adult film industry) performers. 20.2% of performers diagnosed with STD’s had one or more repeat infections within a one year period.

    > 66% of porn performers have Herpes, a non-curable disease
    > Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds
    > 2,847 STD infections among 1,884 performers from 2004-2008
    > Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS
    > 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths since 2000
    > 70% of sexually transmitted infections occur in females
    > 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women

    Here is some more information you should take into account…
    › The California Occupational Safety and Health Act
    requires employers to provide a safe and healthful workplace for employees, and pay costs of a health and safety program
    › Adult Film Employers must comply with all relevant regulations
    › Workers in adult film industry face particular hazards because actors perform in sex acts. Diseases can be transmitted through blood, semen, vaginal fluid and fecal material, or by mucous membrane contact
    Cal Osha Requirements for Adult Film Employers must:
    › Follow a written safety and health program, known as injury and illness prevention program or IIPP
    › Train employees in health and safety hazards
    › Protect employees from hazards associated with bloodborne pathogens or other potentially infectious material such as bodily fluids
    › Provide sanitation facilities
    Not discriminate against employees who complain about safety and health conditions
    > Cal Osha’s bloodborne pathogens standard requires employers to use feasible work practice controls to protect workers from coming into contact with blood or other disease-carrying body fluids (“other potentially infectious material”, or “OPIM”). Semen and vaginal fluid are always considered OPIM
    ? The kind of contact prohibited by the standard is contact between skin or mucous membranes and blood or OPIM

    And I can go on and on and on and on…

    Now uh-hem, let me reiterate, we are doing what we do to protect the men and women in the adult industry, we are not glory hogs, false prophets, or self righteous, bible thumping, you’re going to hell yelling, toot our own horn wackoos without a viable cause. We are here because there is a need for what we do and just because we do it as Christians, doesn’t make us any less humane!! If the porn industry would just operate as any other legal company that has rules and regulations in which it is mandatory to follow and they did follow them and if they would protect their workers from harm we would have nothing much to say would we?? So just remember when you point a finger there are three pointing back at you, you shouldn’t assume anything and in the future instead of making a blog about someone in a failed attempt to indirectly accuse them of false practices why not just come “directly” to the source and ask for an interview? I know we’ll all be praying for you Julie, God loves you, your readers and everyone in the porn industry and so do we! Wishing you the best on your search for the truth and peace.

    Sincere Regards,
    Jan formerly Elizabeth Rollings

  36. If I may, I would like to jump in. I will attempt to share with respect for others views…please be patient with my response.

    My viewpoint is that of a 41 year old male porn addict. I’m married, have two sons in college, and yet I still of my own choice in my own life struggle with an addictive escape and my drug of choice is porn.

    Thus I am not here to judge anyone else, this is simply my own experience and observations.

    That being said, I consider myself a recovering addict with moments of sobriety and clarity from time to time.

    I have had many people tell me and tell other addicts, just stop the behavior. Saddly it is a bit more complicated than that, and many times…I included…fall back to making the addictive choice because for a moment it relieves the pressure of whatever ale’s me at the time.

    Well on of the resources that has been of assistance to me has been Shelley Lubben’s site. They help to bring an alternate view, a reality view to the images of fantasy that I surf through.

    It has, at times, helped me to gain sobriety or keep a long lasting sobriety…but I am not perfect and I do fall.

    That being said, I also find the my faith is a huge part of who I am. Realizing this, I realize that I am not perfect…neither are the people who with the best of intent “Preach”

    Basically what I take from this is that people push their own thing, beit religion or porn or any other topic, because that is what they believe is important at the time. Saddly, we find that even with the best of intentions, we continue to judge faith by the individuals that we experience faith through.

    However, if someone is truly sold out to faith, to “God”, to “Christianity”, then if they loved me would they not share their faith with me as best as they see fit. After all, in their eyes…It’s as if I am standing in the middle of a road with a truck barraling down on me…would the one who claims to be there to save me actually jump out and push me out of harms way, or would they just stand by and watch me get hit by that truck.

    I say to you, that anyone who would just stand by and idly watch is not true to their faith. But the one who jumps in harms way, and pushes me out of the oncoming trucks path is willing to live their faith.

    I share this, basically as an example that was illustrated by “Penn” of Penn and Teller, who is a self proclaimed agnostic or athiest, I forget which.

    This story, helps me to understand about the “Pushy Preacher”

    The challenge then falls back to the person who is targeted to be ‘Saved’…what if they don’t believe that a truck is heading straight for them and rather see the ‘Savior’ as some pushy idiot.

    After all, none of us want to be pushed around…we tend to be stubborn about ourselves…saddly, I don’t have the answer.

    Again, I acknowledge that I am a sinner and one of my action stems from acting out to pornography…living in a fantasy life. I am a consumer of porn…but I am also a child of God, who has a desire to be free from my own choice to consume porn.

    There is a beauty in faith…God wants us to choose him of our own free will. Basically, faith is a choice…any ‘Teacher of faith’ who does not acknowledge this fact is a false prophet.

    By the way, to Julie…any church who does not want its congregation to challenge the teachings of the “Pastor” via the use of scripture is a cult. In my current Church and my last Church, it was very clear that they wanted us to take the lesson taught, go back and research the lesson…then challenge any aspects that were misrepresented or confused about.

    I want to be clear, I believe 100% of the Holy Bible, yet I have so much to learn about the scriptures…and it is my responsibility to learn these things. I also believe that there are others that I can seek wise counsel…however neither them nor any other individual are the authority of God’s word.

    I have come to believe based on many years of searching…just because I have changed my belief does not make me a “Perfect” person…but rather a seriously damaged work in progress, prone to make some very damning mistakes along the way.

    That being said, there are also those who “Push” because it makes them feel better than others…I assure you, I am pond scum…I am not posting to raise my value, but rather to try and provide a different approach towards faith and dealing with people with “Loud” Claims of faith.

    Christians are not imune from being a bit crazy!!! But then on that same note, Non-Christians are not exempt from their own share of double-standards.

    In conclusiong, I humbly ask to give Shelly and others trying to help an opportunity to be an advocate and to be an ear, a hand, a person available to help others. I also humbly ask, those who are indeed serving and reaching the “Adult” community, to do so with grace and a willing/listening heart…please do so, with a willingness to be nailed up on that cross as a payment for that individual who cries out to you for help.

    As for the ministry, let us be reminded about the crucifixtion. We are shown the image of Jesus on the cross, along with two others by his side…but what about the crowd that was there, the crowd that had Jesus sentenced???

    As much as we want to save everyone, we know it is a choice and that our choice is to serve without judgement, to love even when we are being stoned, beaten, spit on, etc…

    I wish you all the best, and I pray that someday, I will be able to proclaim my own freedom from my addiction…as for now, I remain an addict in recovery.

    Thank you for letting me share and thank you for posting a strong interactive blog for us to respond to…regardless of our view.

  37. Shelley, death may not lie, but the way you present your data certainly does. You are drawing false conclusions from a data sample you had no control over. Your logic isn’t sound! Your conclusion is this: “There are actually hundreds of women and men, straight and gay who have died due to the negative effects of the porn industry.” You site 129 deaths in 20 years as the data to come to your conclusion. The problem is, your sample doesn’t account for cause and effect. You present the data as though 129 average people got into porn, and porn pushed them into drugs, alcohol, suicide and other forms of eventual death at an early age. What you fail to account for in your data sample is how many of those people were already drug users or on the road to suicide PRIOR TO GETTING INTO PORN!

    You would have to remove those people from the data sample prior to doing your comparisons against other occupations. You need to divide the people who were truly driven to death entirely by porn, from those who were driven to porn because they were already headed for destruction. Your data doesn’t do that, and therefore, your conclusion is fallacious!

    I could just as easily conclude from your data sample that those who are about do die at an early age due to drugs, alcohol, suicide etc. decide they might as well do porn before they die…and that would be no less accurate than what you are trying to conclude!

  38. Hey, Julie;

    Thanks for responding.

    I won’t disagree with your statement. Yes, a person in ANY occupation can die a horrible death, and I don’t doubt that people in every occupation have. Even so, very few occupations actually drive a person to kill themselves, or to take drugs, which I wholeheartedly believe that porn industry does. Very few occupations are so hard on the human body and spirit. It’s no secret that the vast majority of industry people use drugs. I was only in the industry for 6 months, but by the time I came out, I was devastated, and it took me a long time to recover. I am not some weak-minded person without an ounce of grit, either. Before getting into porn, I was actually in the military. I know what it’s like to have to rough it. Naturally, I am a very tough person.

    I haven’t talked to a single girl who wasn’t negatively affected by the porn industry in some way. I’ve been reading the comments that indicate that porn is not for everyone, and that it takes someone “very special” to make it in porn. I am hoping that someone could perhaps expound on this statement. What exactly are the qualities that would make a person a good fit for the porn industry? I would seriously like to know, because in my own experience, I have not met a single girl who was “fit” for the industry, whatever that means. As I said before, everyone I met has been negatively affected in some way, and not a one of them doesn’t regret it.

    I don’t believe that the Dead Porn Stars video is insensitive or deceptive in any way. I think that it is excruciatingly real, and exposes the dark side of porn that not a lot of people are aware of. As Shelley said, there were lots of other porn stars who died in this way. Don’t you find that utterly tragic? I do. Don’t you also find it sad how young all of these men and women were who died?

    I have heard the word “religion” thrown around in this discussion a lot. I don’t think of myself as a highly religious person, but I do consider myself spiritual, and very close to God. For me, it’s not about religion. It’s about my relationship with God. I love Him, and I know that He loves me. I think a lot of people look down on Christianity because they really don’t understand it. Like you, Julie, I was raised in the church, but Christianity meant nothing to me because I didn’t know God on a personal level. It wasn’t until I experienced Him on a personal level that Christianity made sense.

    The difference between Christianity and every other religion is that Christianity actually affords an intimate relationship with God, and this is through Jesus Christ. No other religion can bring a person in touch with God on a personal level, and allows you to actually “know” Him. No other religion bridges the gap between God and man. A person cannot know the living God and have it be an afterthought in their lives — that is why Christianity is such a huge part of what we do. We care very much about the people in porn, but we also know that God cares about them a lot more than we do.

    Even so, it’s not all about Christianity, but seeing as how Christ is such a huge part of our lives, it’s going to be noticable. In no way do we push Christianity on anyone, but if we didn’t talk about it, we wouldn’t be real.

  39. Damn not being able to respond earlier!!! Rrrr… 😀

    Harpcat: It was not my intention to suggest that anyone from The Pink Cross is a future or possible murderer. I think as I write and it just happened that that is a recent story about a porn star death. Ironic… but not an implication.

    No one hides the risks of being a race car driver to the aspiring drivers. The videos of the wrecks are spectacular enough. They do however take every precaution to make sure that the drivers are safe, with all of the safety equipment they can muster….

    And, in fact, lots of people in the industry go out of their way to warn sex workers of the risks involved with being a sex worker. It’s really an in-your-face issue. Also, I am sad for you that your father exposed you to porn at that age – it explains a lot about your hostility – and I sincerely don’t mean that with any disrespect.

    Well, I got my interview, in a roundabout way. 😀 Thank you, Shelley Lubben, for addressing my questions, though I do get a fairly plastic feeling from it, like it is a routine, but honestly, I appreciate your taking the time to share. Your personality does come through despite the mechanical response, and personality is always the winning attribute. 🙂 I would love to be able to drop you a line from time to time since you are on “that” side of the fence, and I am on mine, and just ask you what you think about this and that. I am very impressed with some of your colleagues, too. I appreciate their responses most of all, because while I think you have the burden of having to have many responses ready for the cameras, a few of “your team” – can I say “friends”, instead? – a few of your friends seem slightly more malleable and the effect is quite charming. Seems you are surrounded by good-intentioned people.

    I tend to forget that I am one of the few women I know in the industry who did not lead a self-destructive life while in the industry. And, you know, I do sympathize. Hell, I am writing about the industry and interviewing women for the same reason that you provide a safe haven for them, I just am not able to give them a material cushion. I even suggested to Tanner Mayes that she could contact you, so in a way, I understand because I also reach out not just to give back to the industry (because I got so much good from it, incidentally), but to help these “throwaway” people who are anything but. Still, I led a charmed life and armed with a very strong sense of self, I avoided the people with low self-esteem and gravitated toward people more like myself. Maybe you’re right. Maybe some people’s inner moral compass is turned off, and just needs the right suggestion to turn it back on. I do that in my own way, but my approach is to encourage through good advice. My personal blog is full of any kind of advice I can give because it benefited me. “Be strong-minded, don’t just be led around.” I guess I get the impression that religion provides a substitute for people who still don’t want to think for themselves. My opinion won’t change, but maybe the lesson I should be taking from this is: Maybe it’s enough to know that the spiritual in me agrees with the basic spiritual nature in someone else. The excess stuff is not as important as the core motivation, and you do seem like someone who truly wants to help, and that, of course, answers the most important question of all.

    I am not fond of the “You hold some porn stars in your arms while they vomit on you for a couple of hours and get back to me. You watch one of the girls you are reaching out to shrivel down to 90 pounds due a cocaine addiction and tell me how broken your heart is.” part because I have actually done these things. And I do write about it, but I never use names. Again, I was a porn star with porn star friends, but admittedly, most of my friends were smart chicks who never needed a “handler”, only a roadie and/or bodyguard, as does anyone with some fame who is easily recognizable.

    The video is still weird and disturbing, and I definitely don’t agree with it, but… agree to disagree, I guess. Actually, “monicaf” has a good question that I, too, would like answered: Do you have a step-by-step plan for women in the industry, some guidelines they can follow that are practical that may help them to therapeutically leave the industry with the intention of little to no heavy trauma? In fact, I think I have next week’s post just in that. If, of course, you don’t actually have a comprehensive “recipe” to share for how to get out and stay out. Something practical that doesn’t have anything about God in it… you know, sort of like quitting smoking… I think I’m on to something! Anyway, I can probably give some advice on that, myself. And you know, now that I think of it, having a support group is important… I just don’t like the religious part. Again, never-ending question!

    While I still don’t understand completely, and probably never will – at no fault to anyone here, really – I am pleased that you stopped by and shared your thoughts. I consider the post a success because I got the opportunity to talk to people I might not have otherwise gotten to talk to. In fact, some of you are so open to conversation I might even hit you up with an e-mail just asking what you think about something, but I will not get offended if I get a definitive “Go away!” response. 🙂 The help I would be asking for is not the saving kind, but the curious kind, and you may not want to bother with my silly and very calculating and logical questions. Still, at least respond if you would be so kind. The help you give can come in many forms and I can think of nothing more isolating than asking a question and getting silence as a response.

    Thank you!!!

    Cocaine, you crack me up!!

  40. juliemeadows- Sure, you can drop me a line whenever you like, & ask questions or whatever. You probably have my email, & my myspace in on here as well. I just think the main differences of opinions come from the fact that you have some people that are more “religious” than others. People that aren’t have a hard time understanding why people are, & vice versa. If you’re a christian…then you believe that certain things are wrong, but if you tell anyobdy that…then they accuse you of being judgemental. It’s a fine line…that people should be careful w/. I agree that some people are too judgemental in their approach, but at the same time…I just wished that people wouldn’t dismiss everything a christian says as being judgemental. I think it’s best if people come in love & make it a point to let people know that they’re not trying to come off that way. It sounds like you’re pretty reasonable & open-minded.

    Cocaine Incorporated- I appreciate that response…no offense taken. It sounds like you’re doing some good moral things yourself, & I think that’s great as well.

  41. Thanks, Ash! I will e-mail you.

    What I do find more fascinating than the roles we play and the ceremonial dresses we wear are why we wear them. I believe we are all a work in progress, and that is why I like different kinds of people. You seem reasonable, too, and I will definitely continue correspondence with you. 🙂

  42. “92bDad” – I just saw your post and I have to go to work. 🙁 I want to respond fater work, though. Can’t believe I missed it! Thank you for sharing and please check back if you can later tonight. Darn work. Grrrrrr….. Which, I need, but it is frustrating when cool things like this stream are happening. 😀

  43. juliemeadows- You’re welcome! I definitely think everybodies a work in progress…to some degree. Everybody has some sort of problem, or something they can work on the be a better person. It is important for us to work to become better people…no matter what our beliefs are. Anytime we either go through a hard time,or make a mistake…we can learn from it. We should use whatever the situation is to become better people. Hope to talk more later:)

  44. Julie — I am also extending an open invitation to you, if you ever want to contact me for any reason. I believe you have my E-mail.

    I am still curious, though — in your opinion, what character traits define a person who is “fit” for the porn industry?

  45. Hey! A couple of posts got lost on me in the stream…
    “pohj871” – Thanks for your response. Now you have a cool perspective. I like the way you express yourself. And you saw the Tanner Mayes interview. Very cool.

    Jan Meza – I’m glad you posted, too. Although… statistics about disease is fairly redundant. Sex is the job. So now are we to condemn gay men because of AIDS? That’s just a dumb argument. And cops get shot… what does that prove? Save the statistics, please.

    92bDad – You’ve got some interesting perspective to. I suppose I could go with the “teachings” better if they were taught as symbolism. It’s the crazy way with anything put into words, it’s so tricky! If it were a story with symbolism and not related so literally, it would make more sense. Like the frog carrying the scorpion across the river. The scorpion asks for a ride on his back, the frog says yes, the scorpion stings the frog halfway across and before they drown the frog asks why and the scorpion says, “I’m a scorpion dummy.” If it were presented as symbolism or parable, I would get that, absolutely. It is not presented that way, but instead as fact. Too weird. But I do like that your place of prayer encourages it’s members to challenge the “facts”. It makes for a creative person to be able to make a case for some of those crazy stories. 😀

    You are not pond scum! That is where you could actually liberate your mind a bit and maybe start to heal from whatever harm you suffer from. You are just a person. You should not beat yourself up so much! You watch porn. Are you raping people, killing people? Maybe do what i did when I quit smoking and cut back a little at a time. One video here and there until there are no more may be better the the extremes it seems you torture yourself with. Maybe even get a hobby that involves a lot of wrist movement, like bowling. I’m just kidding. You seem nice and I felt comfortable being funny.

    April – I am going to e-mail you, and I am also going to tell you what makes a person “fit” for the porn industry. It’s quite simple really.

    But forgive me if it must wait until tomorrow. Actually, I may have to write about it. This story I have in mind is so long, I think I will have to break it up until three parts. I will e-mail you, though. Most of you have been so kind. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

  46. Oh fine… I’ll tell you now.

    Fit for the industry means… well it’s like being fit for anything. The way you think, feel, live your life, consciously and conscientiously “fits” with the lifestyle of pornography. But more than that it also requires a strong person who knows who they are and what they want and is fully aware of the consequences.

    Nina Hartley is fit for the industry. That is one tough and aware broad! She is in a relationship with someone in the industry, they write, they attend Free Speach meetings, lobby in Sacremento, extend their help and insights by writing books. Her and Ira are definitely fit for the industry.

    Tera Patrick seem fit for the industry. She loves it. She just wrote a book and it appears that she is quite happy, though you won’t like the title. It’s “Sinner Takes All”. I have to admit I find sinners slightly more interesting than saints. Well, more than slightly. Oh… I’m being naughty.

    But, seriously and honestly, we are talking about only a small portion of people in the industry. I like Mike’s perspective about getting the bad ones out. It is the only problem I have ever had with the industry… to many childish people with no self-esteem. It ruins it for everybody.

    Lindsey Lovehands loves her job. Some people just love what they do. That is not a crime. Happiness, in any form, is a beautiful thing. I guess it is much like your faith. Unless you can feel what they feel, it’s impossible to understand completely. Me, I enjoyed the industry. I have met some of the coolest people I will ever meet in the adult industry. In fact, I will be visiting a friend I had fallen out of contact with tomorrow night who was an actor and has been an award-winning cameraman for number of years, and his wife was a porn star and they have a baby and they live a very rural and happy life. There are good people in the industry, but like so many of you have said about the religious fanatics that give Christianity a bad name, not everyone is like that. You really have to look and dig to find the good ones. Diamonds in so much coal, but if you are a diamond yourself, it won’t be too hard.

    That is the best I can do about that until I post again next Monday. It may not help much, but I hope it does.. just a little.

  47. Yeah, I’m glad I was able to see that interview with Tanner. There was plenty of stuff out there blasting her including that video of her flipping out. It was good to get her perspective. Did you get my e-mail about it a few weeks back? I’m Scott I’m definitely going to keep an eye on your youtube channel for future interviews.

    Thanks for the complement about my perspective. I appreciate it.


  48. I do remember that e-mail. You mentioned that I gave her a lot of good advice and you hope she takes it, especially the “learning to say no” part. It was nice of you to take the time to send that. 🙂

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