OK I am actually really tired of the out and out lies I keep hearing about the condom law. If you oppose the law on Libertarian grounds as I do, good for you but don’t think this assault the industry is placing on the law is about anything but money.
If you are a performer you are being played like a cheap Kazoo.
For starters the condom law will REQUIRE producers to pay for testing….that’s a good 300-400 bucks a month back in the pocket of performers, plain and simple. That is why the FSC and Clowns like Digital Playground are against it.
But lets consider the other issues….like privacy….Have you not read what I have written about PASS? You have NO FUCKING PRIVACY anyone can get your real name off of PASS easily. Guess who removed their entries from PASS because of privacy concerns If you guessed Diane Duke, Joanne Cachepero, Dr David Kulbersh, Peter Acworth…you guessed right but YOUR name is still out there for all to see.
Think privacy is a big deal still? How about 2257? Everytime someone licenses your content all of your identifying info is sent to the person licensing it…Yup your real name, your address, in many cases your social security number or passport number, in all cases your photo IDs. if you want privacy you best get the hell outta porn.
So when some moron like Mark Kernes tries to tell you that they are going to destroy your privacy look here
Hey Diane, Joanne and the rest of these scumbags took themselves OUT of PASS so people couldn’t get their info, and they want to tell you that the condom law puts your privacy at risk….Please tell me y’all aint that stupid.
And finally would your position on the condom law change if you knew that last year an active performer was having condomless sex with her known HIV positive boyfriend while she was working in the industry? And I aint talking about Cameron Bay….Its a fact, it happened. That makes my Libertarian principles give way to the idea that people in porn CANT regulate themselves.
What do you think?
39 Responses
If You Are A Performer You Are Being Played Like A Cheap Kazoo http://t.co/ZTZt0vchGy
Played like this guy
Rachel Murray liked this on Facebook.
How about the GF to Autumn 2010 HIV pos performer being outed because she dared to continue working in her chosen profession despite not one fucking person knowing if she did/didn’t continue having barrier free sex with BF?
Guess what folks the woman that got outed for remaining with someone at their greatest time of need was in all likelihood less of risk to you than every fucking performer listed as an escort who offered a negative HIV test taken in the window period of bare back exposure to unknown partners!
No matter what you think of either performer her mandatory tests were just as valid as any other performer who had bb sex in the window period.
@mikesouth
Might be less confusing to leave 2257 privacy issues separate with FSC barkers insisting that AB1576 is going to compromise that as well. Truth is if producers listen to their lawyers and follow 2257 they are keeping those records entirely separate from other information.
Agree that releasing this information with content resale is an issue and think some of the primary producer arguments with respect to performer safety could offer language to create policy with the custodian verifying possession and retention contract for 2257 data with respect to content Resales. But that’s a whole separate can of worms 😉
RT @MikeSouth1226: If You Are A Performer You Are Being Played Like A Cheap Kazoo: OK I am actually really tired of the out and out … htt…
RT @MikeSouth1226: If You Are A Performer You Are Being Played Like A Cheap Kazoo: OK I am actually really tired of the out and out … htt…
Can someone explain producers paying for the test? Does it get divided depending on how many shoots you do during the testing period?
How will it be tracked and accounted for?
You sound frantic and desperate. Calling everyone names isn’t exactly a great strategy. Let your points do the mic drops not your name calling.
@zzannahk
As the most vocal supporter of shared costing…
Given the popularity of affiliate revenue programs it amazes me how many are confused that costs can also be shared, and accurately accounted for.
Yes it would be divided based on content productions and can be extended to agents, producers and performers who take advantage of the test for escorting.
Since Kink currently pays for straight performer testing I’ll use them as starting point…right now they book talent and send them to an approved provider who bills kink for the tests, over the 14 days the test is valid non-kink.com content is often produced via paid shoots and/or unpaid performer content swaps. Agents and producers also use the existence of those tests to generate revenue via escort gig booking fees.
Using this method and red/green checks in PASS there is no way to know how many non-kink scenes are produced on Acworth’s dime and as much as I applaud him picking up the tab this method isn’t very fair. This method also violates performer privacy via red checks that allow too many to know they tested positive for something included in the current well publicized 14 day test panel.
Under shared costing the provider divides cost per certificate requests (CR) during test validity…again starting with kink…sending performer to the same provider….instead of entering into PASS a certificate is issued to kink (kink retains certificate …will address this below) if performer doesn’t shoot any non-kink content or (revenue generating booked escort gig) during test validity then provider bills them as they currently do…under shared costing the provider if agent books escort gig = CR, (performers with their own escort sites that don’t pay booking fees = CR) performer does content swap = CR
Joe blow producer shoots performer = CR
So test costs would be divided by number CR.
Now for the certificate, it states simply “medically fit” “barrier recommended” or “exclusion” no one knows whether HIV or active herpes or anything else caused “barrier recommended”
Now for gay performers who are currently condom mandatory at kink…test phobia due to HIV criminalization, if you have this phobia then you aren’t a good candidate for porn production. Test phobia indicates the willingness for indiscriminate irresponsible sexual behaviors that may be acceptable on a personal level but aren’t on a professional level.
HIV+ …ACUTE or high viral loads = “exclusion” no differently than syphilis or any other risk that a barrier wouldn’t address…again no one knows.
HIV with suppressed viral load is the trickiest part…using the certificate request process producers (and performers doing content swaps) determine where this falls in their medical fitness protocols as okay (fit) barrier only or excluded. This is also why content swapper would be requesting partners certificate and not providing their own.
Lastly using certificate approach the medical provider would be able to use anatomical swabbing, urine or blood as medically appropriate as well as staggered testing frequencies that correspond with risk…which also eliminates the well publicized test panel changes. Word of mouth is still gonna happen but it isn’t appropriate for the world to know as much as they do now about performers health.
Erik sound a little as always upset with you, Mike.
I’d probably give a rat’s ass. Maybe even a fuck, if there was enough of a porn biz left to give two shits about.
If there was a like button jimjmyd id use it
so true
The Bill is “On-call” on the way to Brown’s desk.
Start loading up those U-Hauls.
You gotta love the guy who said his daughter needs cello lessons and the bill would generate the most income for U-Haul.
Really? That’s your argument? *facepalm*
If I was talent I would love to be getting an extra 400
dollars a month for my EMPLOYER to pay for my testing.
Performers are not I/C, but Employees and Humans that are not
disposable. They should be having their testing paid for.
Who was the so called $25million dollar company that left
Chatsworth Diane Duke was talking about that left?
Oh another thing, Keep the Alcoholic Editors away from the
bar before the “hearings”. He mumbled too much and the
“attorney” for Brazzers/Mangeek need to stop bullshitting about
owning that building in LA. They only lease the upper to floors on
the top. Fucking people.
I STILL don’t understand why they’re discussing employee vs. Independent Contractor status? Wasn’t this settled like MONTHS ago?
Performers are considered “temporary employees” according to Cal-OSHA. The specific Cal-OSHA adult industry regulations specifically refer to “temporary” or “seasonal” employees.
Federal classification of workers and OSHA classification of workers are COMPLETELY different. Even if you are hired under your own corporation as an independent performer you are generally STILL regarded as an employee under OSHA.
The director is the one calling the shots, not the performer.
Ira Garden had a rough day…closing with Ira Alcoholic wasn’t the best message on top of declining the speech someone offered to write for him…BTW totally curious who offered to write it.
Lacey,
It was not settled months ago. It was settled YEARS ago. But that wont stop the porners from preaching to the choir and still bringing it up. And the privacy argument was shot down faster than Daffy Duck by Elmer Fudd at the opening of duck season;
But the best part is that Izzy and AHF didnt even have to play any of their aces in this hearing. THey still have plenty left should the morons at FSC decide to try any other tactics,,,,though the FSC hasnt come up with any new argument since the beginning of the debate. They’ve lost every round, yet still use the same playbook. What is it they say,,,,insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
@Lacey
Language spin is the name of this game…technically it’s called “intermittent employee” and with respect to OSHA employers don’t get a free pass because they utilize intermittent labor regardless of how that labor is paid. Farmers aren’t exempt from the rules because their crop pickers also pick crops for even hundred(s) of different farmers through the year.
@jilted
This was decided by Cal Supreme Court and rejected by SCOTUS with the WC suit filed by a performer who was infected with HIV in 98…took ten years.
Whatever labor laws content producers w/o paid help may be exempt from this bill isn’t one of them as this bill affects the production of adult content.
@Lacey
On a personal note…the travel will devastate families argument was one of the most ridiculous emotional bullshit toys used. Sorry but having lived many years with the realities of a 95% overnight travel job I’m not too sympathetic.
Also didn’t fit well with the legal vs emotional plea put out to committee
Rapid tests on site. Mandatory condoms won’t decrease infections rates (to the contrary) and it will encourage forgery. It’s taking you ages to understand that rapid tests on site are the only professional way to fix this, but eventually you’ll get there, people. Let’s talk again in a while.
@Sabrina
I’m opposed to onsite rapid tests for two reasons, one is the window, two a positive ELISA rapid test shouldn’t rule out considering the aspects and risks of how someone chooses to (or not to) work with a performer who has consistently undetectable viral loads and presents a much lower risk than ACUTE HIV in the ELISA window period with the idea of perceived safety.
The idea of perceived safety at the highest risk is what bothers me most.
Tristina Camil Millz liked this on Facebook.
Perception of safety vs extra safety? I go with the second one, thank you. I don’t want to fuck an infected person with a condom. I want to fuck a non infected person. Given that there is no 100% safety, but chastity, a rapid test increase safety because: it discourages forgery, it increases professionalism and awareness, it adds an extra check. Also, tell Diane to spend some of the money she earns to educate performers to recognize symptoms; most stds have clear symptoms, often even visual and i hear everybody talking about everything, but prevention and information. Millions are spent every year to organize and sponsor the myriad of contest out there, but no money is spent at all ever for the health issue: set some regular seminars out there, even on scattered sets and have xbiz, avn and the big spenders to sponsor and support them . When a girl doesn’t refuse to suck or fuck on Marcus dick the way it looked like, there is clearly an ignorance problem which needs to be addressed before anything else. A mandatory condom will justify ignorance even more.
Can’t buy into a rapid ELISA test on its own as extra safety or a one size fits all solution to the issue of forgery or deceptive use of prophylactic antibiotics.
As an extra check for performers more comfortable with a negative test and known window risk vs risks associated with suppressed viral loads I’m all for rapid test. Instead of promoting any given protocol as safe or safer it seems more appropriate to discuss varied risk levels with accurate information and allow performers to truly choose the level or types of risk they are willing work with.
Totally agree that more needs to go into education…using the syphillis dick as an example…people very quick to blame her ignorance or his deception …what about the other people on that set? How about the editors that didn’t say…whoa that ain’t right…or the producer who gave final release approval? That footage was out there while people were being infected, so this isn’t a case of stored footage where the story was out and done for.
The mandatory condom laws are a direct result of the industry fighting regulation compliance for the sake of fighting regulation. If the industry wants to maintain barrier free production then it’s time for them to present a feasible alternative with data to back up its feasibility. That alternative would have a systematic educational protocols as well.
Well, i can’t disagree on what you are saying about education and thirdy parties. But when i talk about education i’m talking 360 degrees, ergo producers too. But education will make performers stronger before bad producers and that’s not something wanted in porn valley, because most of actual producers are bad. Because that’s another side of the story, you know: many performers don’t have the guts to “lose” an assignment for their own sake for the fear of not getting another one even with a different producer. Shall we start using the word MAFIA here? These days, performers aren’t good when they perform accordingly, if not great: they are good when they oblige to poor standards fitting into producers agenda. God or someone else save the Duke’s girl: the next big thing in porn with an unhappy ending.
@Sabrina
We may not see eye to eye on the whole picture but definitely not disagreeing or disagreeable 😉
May have grown up in day of fruit trucks, chip/soda and milk home delivery but I’m No stranger to reality of retribution or the fear it causes. Seems like as talent become producers they get wrapped up in new concerns and forget the promises they made themselves and peers…if I were the producer (fill in the blank) 😉
Yeah …the week after Duke spring break it was pretty clear she wasn’t heading back this semester…hope she actually uses her 15 minutes to lay out a solid game plan going forward.
@Sabrina I think that everyone should be as sensible about it as you are, both methodologies have flaws thats a given so you figure out what works in your situation and you make informed decisions and I think thats a good thing.
In porn that window period has been tossed around a lot but the truth is the window periods with 4th generation ELISA tests are very very close to the same as with the pcr and the antigen tests. I too use on the spot testing in addition to less frequent additional testing depending on if its just blowjobs or full on sex. In all my years in porn I have yet to have anyone catch anything on one of my sets (knocking on wood) people say I cant possibly know that dont understand how I shoot, I recruit, screen and vet my talent, male and female, I maintain contact with them, I am still in contact with girls I shot 10 years ago even though they may not have shot in ages, many times they come hang out at the shoots because over time we have all gotten to be a group of friends. People in porn valley cant possibly understand that because they have tunnel vision based on how they do things there. In short, like you I have a set up that works for me, one of my regular crew also happens to have a day job working for OSHA as an inspector and I have solicited his advice and I use it.
Another point….On the rare ocassion when a new guy wants to come into the group and I am letting someone in because one of the regulars got married or moved or whatever he first works as crew until he has a series of negative tests that spans 2 or 3 testing cycles because in my mind i would rather have a guy who has tested 5 or 6 times over a month or so on instant tests than a guy who has a single pcr test he did two or three days ago…that wouldnt necessarily work for porn valley but it does work for me and I suspect your situation is closer to mine than it is to porn valley.
Bottom line…keep up the good work doll, nobody here is going to criticize you for doing what works best for you.
I’ve never objected to Ora Quick tests as an addled layer of protection. But here is one big problem,,,,,what if someone comes up postive on the set that day? You can bet your bottom dollar that in less than two minutes everyone else on that set is going to pickup their smart phones and start tweeting that so and so just tested HIV positive.
I understand totally and I have even considered that in my case….its why I tell the guys up front that they can expect one of two results from that instant test negative or inconclusive, if it comes up inconclusive they just need to go test at a doctor. i wouldnt tell them they had tested positive. in the case of the instant tests the girl has the choice of verifying the result herself and I verify them as well. But remember I shoot in a very very closed loop, I readily admit that my situation wouldn’t be right for porn valley, though some aspects of it might be reasonable to use as additional precautions.
I just thought of something else…if one of my guys has a cold or anything they actually will call me and say hey Im gonna sit this one out as much as i love Lindsey Lovehands I dont wanna expose everyone else to this flu I have. that happened when I shot lindsey a couple weeks ago. that comes from being a tight knit group, we all even go out to dinner afterwards and hang out, the girls do too.
Jilted, if we are dealing with those kind of people, well…there is no hope. I always start from the assumption that we are talking about professionals, here. If we are not, then we know what the real problem is ;).
Mike, you are very sweet in trying to “shut” my mouth like the gentleman that you are. But i never felt criticized, on this thread, and when i’ve been on others and have been criticized, i honestly never gave a flying…well…you know what. It’s not about me. Rapid tests are not the ultimate solution, nothing is and we all know it. There is not ultimate safety when you throw yourself from a plane wearing a parachute, go figure when you “gamble” with STDs. I know you are a strong supporter of condoms and i see why so much that i couldn’t disagree about it, because, as you say, people working in porn are a “class” of their own. But i would like you to try to go beyond porn valley. Never forget that, especially lately, there are many performers who are coming from different realities and different countries. Porn today is not just porn valley and i would expect from someone like you to underline this. People in porn valley don’t understand a lot of things and that’s probably why they just found themselves whining about something that they have created themselves. I thought we were talking about safety in porn here and not about porn valley and their short sight. I would bet one of my boobs that beside your support for mandatory condoms, you have no faith at all in mandatory condoms getting even close to fix the lack of safety in porn valley. I hope you’ll not stop calling me doll when i insist saying that mandatory condoms will turn out to be a kick in the ovaries and gonads of adult performers’ safety. When you wear a full metal jacket you expect someone shooting at you, before or after. And it will happen sooner than later. I have an apology ready for you if i’m wrong. Just give me the benefit of 6 month time from the bill enforcement. Again, don’t stop calling me doll: nobody but you ever does and it feels good 😉
you misunderstand not trying to shut your mouth at all I like your comments here. there are a lot of people in the biz that would criticize you just saying you wont find them here. and it only seems like I support mandatory condoms when actually i support an honest condom neutral policy but it is occuring to me that as a whole the industry in LA is not responsible enough for that policy
and for the record…I agree with you
Doll 😉
A well known HIV+ director having sex with a currently working performer. Brings a whole new meaning to the term “Stag” film.
@jilted –
Your subtlety is astounding… lol.
Yes, his subtlety is lacking here, we all know who “Stag” is. For the record John Stagliano (who is HIV+) should not be having unprotected sex with anyone that doesn’t already have HIV, especially someone in the adult biz. I have read about rumors of John having sex with various different women over the years and discounted them because it is hard to believe that someone not already HIV+ would have sex with him with his HIV+ status well known. Other than that I can’t speak to the rumors truthfulness knowledgeably. I can say that he has a wife at home that evidently loves him (and is also HIV+) that he could probably fuck every night of the week if he wanted to. With that and his HIV+ status in mind he should not be fucking chicks willy-nilly (please note that I am not accusing him directly but only addressing Jilted’s statement). I hope the rumors that Jilted brought up here are false and no porn chicks get HIV from him but having read rumors about him fucking approximately six girls since the mid 2000’s I fear there may be at least partial truth to them.