I never in a million years thought that the Duke Freshman story would get the legs it did yesterday…I mean it’s a week plus old story, but it blew up, even getting a mention on the local news.
The interesting thing to me was the reader reactions, they actually set me straight in a lot of areas. being in porn I tend to think that having been a porn performer is no big deal for most jobs, I mean I would have no problem with a nurse who had been in porn, so long as she or he wasnt a moron trying to convince me that condoms cause more STDs, A lawyer, no problem, a CPA no problem I might have a problem with a former porn performer teaching my kids but I guess it might depend on the individual.
I forget that most people in the real world dont see things the same as I do, while I can kinda justify paying to go to Duke over a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt the truth is my readers are right. Every scene Belle Knox (Laurens porn name) does devalues her degree a little bit more to people outside the biz, right or wrong thats just the way it is.
She does seem to be a bit brighter than a lot of porn girls and I think she was dead on the money about Republicans, even if she was paraphrasing Will McAvoy on “Newsroom” (I love that show)
In the end I wish Lauren nothing but the best and maybe all of us need to look inside ourselves a bit, Lauren included and ask why this is such a popular story
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Sometimes I Am Clueless Though Not Necessarily Wrong http://t.co/Z5ejh3oSYe
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Another funny thing is it’s not like Belle Knox is the FIRST GIRL to ever do Porn and go to college at the same time. Tasha Reign goes to UCLA and does porn at the same time. I think a lot has to do with the fact that Duke is located in North Carolina, and the Political Views there are a lot different than California.
@LaceyBlake that video you posted about facialabuse. She is treated no differently then any of the girls on there. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think a Monkey could type Facial Abuse.com into a search engine and probably realize what the website entails. A girl who got a full ride to Vandy and goes to Duke, is very well knowing exactly what she is doing. Will she regret her decision later? Sure, but don’t some girls regret gangbanging the entire college football team and not getting anything for it?
I like Mike, hope Belle runs with this new found fame. Like I said previously, her time to make $$$ off porn is now because she will never be this hot again. Then when she retires she can disappear and either chose a new similar school or go back to Duke where there will be a lot less attention.
Everyone sees different situations based on their own personal previous experiences and what they have been taught or learned over the years. It’s been said before and it still applies that the “porn industry” routinely operates in its own isolated little bubble. I, personally, think that’s quite understandable. After you hear the same constant insults enough I would assume they just become old and boring.. and typical?
But, there is a HUGE population out there who don’t really care enough to learn porn star names or even see them as human beings. The industry seems to automatically write these individuals off as “stupid” or “judgmental” or “slut shaming” idiots. There’s no denying that most of them probably are fucking idiots, but the industry has always kind of preached to its own choir and have routinely isolated themselves (with good reason.) But, the fact is everyone on earth is judged in some fashion, not just sex workers. It might not be fair, but life isn’t fair and you don’t always get to do whatever the fuck you want without any sort of after effects. This girl can state that she doesn’t want to work for a company that discriminates or isn’t fully accepting of sex work. Good for her. She’s standing up for what she believes in. That doesn’t change the fact that she lost around 90% of the workforce as potential employers. Some companies aren’t necessarily “anti-sex workers,” but businesses exist to make money. If a business thinks it could potentially lose business then they just won’t hire someone. It doesn’t always come down to personal judgments. Money plays a large factor as well and many sex workers are seen as a liability to the overall ethical reputation of a business. Trust me, girls who are getting fucked up the ass by 50 guys and drinking cum by the gallons or are doing scenes on facialabuse.com aren’t seen by most of the general public as “empowered.”
Then something on a national level happens that gets alot of press and that’s when the majority gets heard and not JUST those fighting against pornography. Which is why everyone looks around going “where the hell did this outrage come from?” It’s ALWAYS been there. Most of the public just don’t care enough to even acknowledge it unless something happens publicly.
And, that’s kind of where I sit.. EXACTLY in the middle. I can fully see the arguments from both sides. I know more than most consumers about the porn industry. Unlike many, I do care. So, I get the “porn” side and I get the “mass public” side. A majority of the time I just get completely frustrated at the double standards and common excuses or even the delusions that make no sense from both sides. There’s no denying that there are strong and weak theories on both sides.
But, the majority of the population doesn’t really give a shit about new porn DVD releases or who won the AVN best sex scene award. I would be willing to bet I couldn’t find 1 local person who even knows what AVN actually is…
With this media frenzy you’re kinda seeing the public majority taking notice of the common delusions within the industry mixed together with a young girl who seems extremely intelligent and I think most (or many) people are at least trying to see it from her point of view, but the whole thing doesn’t make much sense and if something doesn’t make sense or seems rather conflicting, the public has no problem making their opinions known without sugar coating it or considering the feelings of others. The public can be downright cruel sometimes, but you have to give them credit for being brutally honest….
Her entire story makes very little sense and she continues to fight against the public for just pointing out the inconsistencies. Plus, even those who seem to care and understand what this girl will be facing in the future get labeled as mean, harsh, judgmental or the all-time favorite “slut shaming.” So, now we’re at a point where sex workers rally around themselves about how liberating and empowering they are while dismissing anyone who has a different viewpoint as being “judgmental.” It’s not the best atmosphere for open debates and discussing conflicting opinions.
@mdxxx –
My point regarding putting that video up was because the original scene that I saw didn’t have the “audience laughing” soundtrack in the background.
My entire point was, facialabuse or someone, seemed to put that soundtrack of everyone hysterically laughing after-the-fact just to make fun of or degrade her even more than she was in the original scene.
I just thought it was cruel. That’s all. The site is called facialABUSE.com. Yes, I’m sure she had some kind of idea what she was getting herself into… you know, like ABUSE. 😉
A large percentage of todays porn is about humiliation and degredation. “Porn ” performers are a niche in the sex worker trade. Porn does more damage to the sex workers right advocates than any other segment of sex work. Porn openly advocates for unprotected sex, something that every other sex workers organization fight for.
Porn does more to illustrate the negative stereotypes of sex workers than any ‘anti-porn’ organization ever could. These female performers are nothing short of delusional if they think that doing facialabuse scenes are somehow empowering to women. They are meant to be degrading, and to perpetuate the negative stereotypes,,,exactly the opposite of what this girl thinks she is doing.
And, yes, I just realized how unbelievably stupid that sounded. But, that’s a semi-example of why many just can’t understand violent porn…
She’s doing scenes for facialABUSE.com and I’m trying my hardest to keep an open mind recognize that she is perfectly capable of making her own decisions. But, there is STILL a small part of me that doesn’t understand why someone would want to get abused whether sex is involved or not… so, that’s what you get: A rather ridiculous statement about how a laughing soundtrack in the background seems unbelievably cruel.
I swear, I really do try to understand. But, sometimes it just defies logic that someone would enjoy being abused… the straight up hardcore abuse with no pleasure involved gets me every time…
The value of an Ivy League education is overrated. She should have taken the free ride at Vanderbilt, especially given her choice of Women Studies and Sociology as her major(s).
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0811/the-value-of-an-ivy-league-education.aspx
Heck, Mike. I thought you were pretty shrewd for posting the story – it was bound to generate traffic for your site, regardless of where you came down on the matter. I know what I just wrote sounds cynical, and its not intended to be at all. It was a smart move – smarter than the move of an 18 year old who is full of herself and fooling herself into thinking that using phrases about normative values and women taking charge of their bodies to justify getting paid to suck cock means she hasn’t sold herself short.
By the way, I have nothing against sex workers. Way back in the 70’s, when I was in college, I took a popular culture class in college. We all had to do a class project. My class project was to work a semester running the lights at a burlesque theater in Toledo, Ohio – one of the few remaining theaters on what was then called the Midwestern Circuit. I did a paper focused on a stripper whose stage name was Val Valentine. As part of the project, I brought Val in to speak to the class.
Let me tell you – she was one dynamic woman. There were some guys in the class who tried to give her crap. She held her head high, she told her story, and she did it without apologies or shame. She had more dignity than the guys in the class.
Never once did she use the phrase normative values or pretend that what she did empowered other women. She was a single mom making the best of a bad situation with the assets she had. No illusions.
I also got an A in the class.
The thing I like about writing this site is it keeps me in check, you guys are smart and have common sense and a better handle on the world outside porn than I prolly do,
And that we can disagree on things without being combative, I have the best and smartest commentators of any adult industry site (can you imagine what the kazoo’s comments section would look like) LOL
Nothing says “I am an empowered woman” more than having a man spit directly in your face, call you a stupid cunt, and then violently shove his cock down your throat. Dang, this chick is more powerful than Wonder Woman.
This girl is doing nothing more than perpetuating the very same stereotypes that she thinks she is fighting against.
The PORN industry is the single biggest impediment to leagalizing sex work in the United States.
I know that it’s out there if people dig for a second, but why did you use her porn name here?
So you discount her first hand account that service industry jobs felt much more degrading to her? She isn’t asking others to work in porn.
Any story that is even remotely pro-porn is going to get huge push back from your commenters. Certainly matches with what I’ve always seen here. They do seem smart, but this push back does nothing to prove that. The reaction was based on an anti-porn view, not necessarily about them being smart.
I’m not surprised this story has gotten the legs. Debates usually confined to either mainstream or porn are flourishing beyond their usual boundaries. Stereotypes and issues are being challenged from both sides. Porn in general, as a true choice vs last resort, content choice to a post porn life.
NIMBY (Not In my Back Yard) duplicity relates to this story without the added feature of turning down a full ride to a different university. Mainstream lives with the delusion that porn lives in the Valley. Media stats that 90% of porn is produced in the Valley foster the notion that porn is limited to pre-recorded video. Other delusions of Bible Thumpers restricted to the Bible Belt where this story hails from, political labels etc. show NIMBY and stereotyping go hand in hand regardless of issue.
Even in Porn Valley consumers of porn routinely reject employment of porn participants in favor of less qualified candidates and\or justify firing employees with a porn past citing workplace disruption. Porn detractors target participants then judge them unfit to hire or associate with beyond the “reformation” process. Discriminatory harassment is condoned by virtue of the controversial nature of porn by even the most ardent protectors of society.
Discriminatory harassment AKA disruption is condoned and facilitated each time the employee with a porn past is fired in deference to those creating the disturbance. Even companies with strict rules to protect employees with controversial political or religious beliefs refuse to protect employees with a porn past.
Choice of content debates aren’t limited to mainstream. Nor is the controversy of disparaging what’s personally objectionable or outside the norm.
Beyond why the story got legs there is the story itself. Based on her statements it seems like she has no idea where she fits.
University girl does porn? Better than waiting tables, not to folks freely exercising their right to choose to serve food vs sex. Stating your choice doesn’t require negating rejected options.
Libertarian wearing a republican cloak? Am I wrong to assume that Duke has a fellowship of Libertarian students? What logic is there in crying they aren’t strong enough as her voice is wasted de-cloaking herself among the stronger Republican clique she chooses?
The crappy bosses, low pay and long hours referenced are willingly accepted by waitresses everyday as a trade for the issues this girl is facing for choosing porn. Nor will those references make this crappy day at work go away.
Ideally the guy talking about his memorable event logged in live, tipping $$ for the services she provided. Sneaking into a show or dine & dash doesn’t say much about someone’s character.
With either job she will have long forgotten clients crossing her path. Some clients are going to discuss the experience she freely consented to provide. Her day at work is providing a great experience for immediate gratuities and future income with repeat business.
Ideally the guy talking about his memorable event logged in live, tipping $$ for the services she provided. Sneaking into a show aka dine & dash doesn’t say much for someone’s character.
Higher pay for shorter hours vs. Perpetuity of pirated content.
Lastly duplicity in relationships. Early in our relationship my husband stumbled into a dangerous trap when he expressed admiration of my ass and its likeness to Britt Eckland’s. It was flattering until he qualified with something about not comparing me to “someone who does porn” Say what?
@Lacey
Your opinions about her content are anything but stupid. The idea that someone might enjoy or choose hardcore abuse is beyond my comprehension. Doesn’t matter if it’s sexual aka porn, boxing, MMA (kick boxing), walking hot coals barefoot, or lifting cars using facial piercings…it’s beyond me but there are people who swear they like it.
As long as they are liking it and limiting it to like minded people I don’t see a problem. OTH manipulation or coercion forcing someone to go beyond their boundaries is never acceptable to me.
@jilted
Well said.
Sexual BDSM is a personal choice requiring sub-missives who derive pleasure in that role. Feeling empowered or elated in the sub-missive role in no way empowers gender or societal roles. Saying the choice to be submissive empowers women is like saying submissive men emasculate the male gender. Submissive women crying empowerment are no less delusional than people who glorify unprovoked violence and rape.
I didn’t realize how much her porn name was being reported at this point. Disregard this comment.
Is it about that specific choice though? I would think the argument would be that the choice to be submissive empowers on the level that it is a choice. The act of feeling free and making the choice is the empowering act. I would think that would be the counter argument. Not submissive choice = empowerment, but sexual choice = empowerment.
@erik
“Any story that is even remotely pro-porn is going to get huge push back from your commenters. Certainly matches with what I’ve always seen here. They do seem smart, but this push back does nothing to prove that. The reaction was based on an anti-porn view, not necessarily about them being smart.”
Adversarial comments like this just help the “anti-porn establishment” and it’s just plain bullshit. Safety and porn are not mutually exclusive.
The folks feeding you the kool-aid that prompted your comment employ the common sense of a gnat.
@erik
A female relating submissive choice (sexual or not) to gender empowerment in no way empowers women or feminism. Homemakers are considered submissive and anti-feminist leaving little room for the reality that many women choose to be homemakers and some prefer dominate sexual roles.
As a homemaker for over 20 years so called “feminists” who equate their paycheck to their societal value are no different than stereotypes that precipitated burning bras. The reality that I gave up a lucrative career to raise our children and do unpaid community volunteer work meets with the same kinds of contempt and judgements that this girl at Duke would choose porn over a free ride.
It seems like we pretty agree. There shouldn’t be a strict set of guidelines for what makes a “good” or empowered woman (or man). The importance should be ‘is the person truly happy’ and ‘was the choice truly theirs’. In other words, reasons matter. An unhappy homemaker who choose based on societal or spousal pressure seems to be different than someone making a clear choice and doing what they want and makes them happy. I feel like we are on at least a similar page. Empowerment is choosing and choosing something satisfying. Empowerment shouldn’t be about coloring inside a made up boundary. It seems to me that a happy, self-confident person is an empowered person.
“The folks feeding you the kool-aid that prompted your comment employ the common sense of a gnat.”
Comments like this imply I don’t have my own thoughts and are exactly the ideas I’ve seen on this site that lead to my earlier comment. This site has a majority of commenters that have a similar view on many of these issues. That was my point. Certain type of stories get a certain flow of reaction. I’ve said that previously and the push back here does nothing to weaken that idea. For context: I only look at this site when it comes to porn stories. Maybe a bit of context of who you think the “kool-aid” servers are would allow me to address them, rather than that vague comment.
Lurking, I agree that BDSM is a personal choice, I am into the practice myself. However I don’t know of any definition of the term that includes getting your face beat to the point of bruising of the eyes (not the skin around them but the actual eyeball). Look up Clayra Beau on Google to read more in depth about her experience but I will summarize by saying that her face was black and blue and her eyes were severely blood shot and bruised from doing just part of a scene for Facial Abuse. As far as I am concerned Facial Abuse is not BDSM and those that are uninformed enough to think that it is are staining the reputation of the practice. We will bruise/mark arms, chests, backs, butts, thighs, legs and even feet if the submissive enjoys that activity but never the face. The farthest anyone that I know will take facial “BDSM” activity is 1-2 light to moderate slaps leaving nothing more than a red mark that will evaporate shortly after the slap.
For the record I don’t consider choking (which if I understand correctly Facial Abuse also does) to be BDSM either but some do disagree with me on that. As Mike South has said people don’t pass out from asphyxiation (that takes several minutes) but from the loss of blood flow to the brain (which causes loss of consciousness in about 30 seconds if done by choking). That is what happens to part of the brain in the most common form of stroke, folks.
Granted I am a man but if I were female I would feel more degraded getting hit on by 65 year old lecher low-tipping customers twenty times a day (IIRC she worked as a waitress before doing porn) than being female and fucking a nice looking person like James Deen or Evan Stone for money. Also, porn pays much more than a waitress would make in a day, allowing Lauren to work less and study more. Besides, if 65 year old lechers turn a woman on she can always go to Intersec and get a scene with PD (he has admitted to considering himself a lecher on video, that is not intended to be a slam on him and what he does).
@erik2690. Not looking to pick a fight, but since I am one of those who pushed back, all I can say is: I am not even remotely anti-porn. I’m a middle aged guy who has been watching and enjoying porn since the 70’s. My wife and I have watched porn together over the years. I started visiting this site because I was a fan of porn.
Anything I’ve written on this site about condoms and OSHA have nothing to do with being anti-porn or the final product. They have to do with just trying to set the facts straight about the First Amendment, 1099 employees and OSHA. As a result of my job, I have a little experience in each of those areas. That doesn’t make me anti-porn. It just makes me anti-stupid. Everyone on a bar stool or in front of a keyboard is entitled to their opinion.
In the real world of filing law suits and appealing regulatory decisions, you’re not entitled to your own facts, and that’s why porn has lost every legal battle or regulatory appeal to date. Maybe they’ll get luckier as they move up the ladder. Again, its not anti-porn to say that porn has lost in court and in front of regulators. That’s what happened. Its like saying BT is against the moon because he says the sun comes up in the morning.
Which brings us to this young thing. My push back has nothing to do with being anti-porn. It has everything to do with being anti-stupid. I don’t look down on someone like Lisa Ann, who has brought me lots of pleasure over the years. She’s smart, funny, sexy and a great entertainer. She does what she does, for whatever reason, and she’s made a career out of it.
I do push back at an 18-year-old kid who apparently has some brains but no judgment whatsoever. She is using feminist theory that she probably read her last semester of high school, a schtick about being a feminist braniac who sucks dick to empower other women and pay her tuition, and just plain BS to promote herself.
Again, this whole – I’m too poor to pay my tuition bill is BS. A real life example. A close friend of mine is a single mom working as a school teacher in a southern state where she makes less than $40,000 a year. She has two braniac daughters. One got a full ride to UNC-Chapel Hill – didn’t pay a dime. The other is attending Sarah Lawrence, which costs $60,000 a year to attend like Duke. Her daughter at Sarah Lawrence got $56,000 in assistance last year – and is studying something with the same job potential as feminist studies. So far, the other kid has managed to come up with the missing $4,000 a year without sucking dick.
I also push back because I’m the dad of a 20-something who is really making something of herself post college. Frankly, I don’t like watching scenes with girls that young for that reason – they remind me of my daughter and her friends. That aside, one look at her, and this gal is no Lisa Ann. Maybe I’m wrong, but she’s never going to be a star. So, I see a kid who is fresh out of high school, making a decision that’s going to impact the rest of her life if she stays at this for any length of time. Meanwhile, porn will chew up and spit out her little feminist ass. She’s going to quickly discover that when the novelty of being new kid wears off. And it will.
If she’s really serious about this career, she’s going to have to move quickly from oral to vaginal to anal to DP to gangbangs to keep getting a check. That is the progression for everyone but the very few at the very top. Just ask Lisa Ann or Julia Ann – both of whom are still doing gang bangs and double anal. So, we’ll see how empowered she feels when she’s in the middle of a Jennifer White 50 man anal creampie or is getting DP’d by Eric Everhard and James Deen, while they yank her hair, smack her ass and face and make her gape.
That’s porn. Just ask Lisa Ann.
What I find interesting is the very different reactions in this situation vs. the case of the young 18 year old man in high school who was discovered doing porn for a gay website in order to make money to help his mother and got suspended from school – http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/21/us/florida-teen-suspended-porn. Many of his classmates (at least those who weren’t trying to bully him) rallied to his defense, much of the media did sympathetic stories, a Facebook support group was formed and eventually the school backed down and let him come back to school. I felt at the time that had he been a young woman the result would have been very different.
Lacey, while I completely agree with you when it comes to the awful misogyny of sites like facialabuse (and I hope you write about it a lot more), I think we need to separate that from the issue of the right for someone choose to work in porn without being shamed or in any way discriminated against. The only way to lessen “what the girl will be facing in the future” is to model the behavior we want others to engage in and passionately defend her in the way that Robert’s friends and supporters did.
@Mharis,,,,yes, maybe doing regular vanilla porn would be so bad, except for the fact that she is a womens studies major. Good luck getting any job in that field after paying for your education by perpetuating the very stereotypes that you fight against.
And she isnt doing vanilla porn with Evan Stone, she’s doing facial abuse scenes with degenerate assholes. But yes of course, having someon SPIT directly in your face is much less degrading than getting a small tip from a 65 year old lech. ONLY IN PORN
Erik, if you had half a clue the comment would not be vague to you. We are not anitporn,,,we want to clean up the business and make sex work legit. The biggest single impediment to legit, legal sex work in the united states is the porn industry, a niche in the sex worker trade.
Again, its tiresome having to explain the simplest things about this business to someone who knows virtually nothing about it.
Rest assured young grasshopper, we are not anti porn,,,we are anti bullshit, which is what alot of this industry is full of.
This girl did not make this choice becuase she wanted to empower herself, or express her sexuality in a positve empowering manner. She did it BECAUSE SHE NEEDED THE MONEY, her choice to enter porn had NOTHING to do with any delusional thoughts that this is somehow empowering for her.
She even said she would stop doing it if her tuition was paid. When you sell your body for sex, or in this case, degrading acts like having someone SPIT directly into your face, which is neither sex, or empowering, and your sole purpose it to make money of, well, there are several words for that. Empowering is not one of them. One rymes with door, and the other is prostitute.
You could just see the look of empowerment on her face as the guys spit dribbles down her chin, he slaps her, calls her a cunt, and sticks his cock in her throat. More power to ya honey!
I don’t know if the question is directed at me or Jilted, but, what the heck. Yes, I discount the first hand account of any high school kid who says that honest work was degrading. If you do the math, this kid is 18 and she had already done porn scenes when she enrolled as a freshman at Duke. That means the theme of her first college term paper: How I spent my summer vacation getting throat fucked on facialabuse.com.
It also means she was a waitress when she was in high school. Remember, she said it interfered with her ability to do her home work.
So, if you’re asking me whether I take seriously the feminist ramblings of someone recounting what they did their senior year in high school, the answer is: Yep.
@mharris
I hope I didn’t imply that shit like breaking cheek bones and asphyxia are the accepted norm of BDSM, my point was more to say that if you’re telling us you freely choose that ..uh okay but it’s not something I’ll ever understand or appreciate. Nor will I understand or appreciate the pleasure kick boxers derive from beating the shit out of each other letting people watch as they fight to near death or death in some cases.
I hope it was clear that using BDSM to justify crossing the line with willing partners or subjecting an unwilling partner is definitely not something I’d condone.
As I understand it BDSM is practiced within agreed parameters of mutually acceptable behaviors. Whether someone chooses to simply utilize scarves and a four poster bed, using dominate or submissive language or take it to extremes of mutual asphyxia I’m not here to police that choice or educate them on the dangers of that choice.
My stance is longstanding and relates to respecting the privacy of consenting adults bedrooms. That said the comments I’m hearing about the “facial abuse” site give BDSM the same kind of name kick boxing gets from unsanctioned cage fights. Further trying to justify broken bones and bruises with a BDSM label in a commercial product is equivalent to knowingly allow someone with HIV to have unprotected sex on film.
Having met and had one on one converstations with hundreds of porn performers I have found it amazing the rationale that alot, NOT ALL, will come up with to justify doing what they do.
This girl did it strictly for the money, and there is no problem with that, but to try to convince herself that doing facial abuse is somehow empowering to her or other women, is a stretch, a BIG stretch.
BT, I agree, a naive 18 year old, trying to rationalize her poor decisions by insulting millions of hard working people by saying she feels its more degrading to work a minimum wage job than having people SPIT in your face is the delusions of a teenager. Grow up young lady, you have already given yourself two strikes before you ever entered the adult world, and the curvballs and change ups you will see inthe future are going to make getting ahead very difficult.
@mharris
Having willingly subjected myself to the pinching leches …young, old, male and female..not to mention…countless sneering “hey you!” I held and hold my head upright and proud. As co-workers guzzled cranberry juice for their “bladder infections” walked like they had a stick up their ass and complained about the lousy tip that smelly old fucking fart gave them…I felt and feel grateful to this day I got told to go back to the shore vs accepting the lucrative offer of porn employment.
I’m not judging or criticizing her choice of porn over waitressing…I’m judging the idea that her choice is qualified by denigrating the rejected option. IG at 18 I knew I didn’t want to lift 50lb bags of dry goods and trays so I went into banking. When my career paycheck wasn’t enough I supplemented it slinging hash..(even five star Ala Carte is slinging hash)
I don’t care what your job is..brains or body…no job is without its faults and every job has its perks.
I know alot of ladies who waitress for a living. I am sure all of us here do. the ones I know make ALOT moe than minimum wage,especially when they only report about 25% of their tips.
How is having soeone SPIT in your face, directly in your face, less degrading than a job that millions of people do. It is an insult to millions of people to think of them as degraded for doing an honest job.
@claude
I think this situation is very different than the HS boy referenced. HS routinely cave Into parental fears via fiscal threats by the local PTO and it is heartening that this HS was forced to backdown when an 18 year old freely choose to earn an income via porn.
This girl at Duke is alienating the very people who would ordinarily come to her defense. She wants to represent feminism, freedom of choice, BDSM and every other community she can even remotely connect herself to…as she offends them all.
Feminism…empowered via facial abuse?
Freedom of choice proven with Duke over free ride to Vanderbilt…but she’d stop if her tuition were paid.
BDSM…even the most outspoken supporters of BDSM have an issue with her content and choice of venue.
Waitressing is degrading? Shit why stop at waitressing…let’s include housekeepers, car washers, and every other gratuities based service industry in there too.
This doesn’t include detractors jumping on her story to prove their ideals of evil porn.
@jilted
And to think crappy bosses and grabby low tipping customers were degrading? I also love how she thought she could keep her job and personal life compartmentalized Aka “secret” and didn’t expect all this attention or controversy. How does that say feminist empowered with free choice? I’d expect an empowered freely choosing feminist to say something like…wow didn’t plan on all this attention, if you like what you’re hearing visit my site where your tips make me extra happy as I entertain you. For those that don’t like this cup of tea I wish you well with your coffee.
That’s the rub…what you do in the privacy of your bedroom should but doesn’t always remain between you and your partner. The idea that she expected the same kind of privacy with internet perpetuity is just ludicrous.
She got caught and was outed, If she had no reservations about what she was doing she wouldnt have kept it a secret. Only after being caught does she come up with this feminist empowering line of baloney. She is again, delusional if she thinks any feminists are going to run to her side and defend her, They will treat her like the plague.
Should sex workers be discriminated against, of course not. But are they, hell yes. Her idealistic values will get her nowhere in the real world. She can ‘stand up for her values’ but that isnt going to pay the rent. She says she would never work for a company that discrimintes against sex workers, well sweetheart, you just eliminated huge portion of the employment pool, especially if you want to be a vocal femininist.
Its fine and dandy to say you will stand up for your values,,,but when your kid needs a new pair of shoes, or something to eat, lets see how strong those values really are. This girl is willing to let people SPIT in her face for money,,,I would have a hard time believing she has a real strong set of values.
@jilted
I can’t say being spit and shit on isn’t an honest job…vets willingly get spit on by horses and get shit on by cows everyday. OTH not many female vets glorify this aspect of their job as feminist empowerment either.
@jilted
This girl hasn’t even faced the realities of university rigors vs HS standards…forget having to discern and stand up or compromise her values to survive. I’m not talking a new pair of shoes or private university tuition, I’m talking basics like food. Nothing like being humiliated to get grateful and humble.
LOL, now youre sounding like Erik. The horse and the cow dont know any better, then again, maybe your comparison is accurate.
Shall we make a pool for when the Vivid offer comes in? Isnt if funny that a train wreck like Farrah Abarmson will make more money in porn than 99% of all the professional porn performers.
@jilted
Come on now …it’s not nice to compare her partners and clients to horses and cows. Besides any vet will tell ya the animals are hung better. Did I leave out the part where vets don’t put their face out there intentionally?
Lol….shall we toss around potential titles now that the idea is out there? Hmm Duke Knox belle? With her begging Duke for another please?
“Honest work”? Who exactly is defining that? No idea why serving food is considered more honest than sex. It seems like a pretty empty phrase. Does “honest” mean more people find it exceptable? More people do it? Define “honest work”.
“insulting millions of hard working people”? How you can read it as that is an amazing mind exercise. She is referring only to her direct experience in both fields. You don’t believe her, that’s fine. How you then extrapolate to make it seem like she is talking about millions of people is amazing. Simply untrue.
Money happens to be a necessity. Why take food orders and get yelled at by people if you don’t want to either? Because it’s more normal? What’s wrong is when you do something you actually don’t want to do. You might be assuming this is the case with her, but you don’t have evidence of that.
Facialabuse seems like an awful experience. However if you are using that as your one example of her porn work. Then we should use, the couple who yelled ate her, complained and didn’t tip as her whole waitress experience.
Actually, the proof is right in front of your face that she doesn’t “want” to do it…
“If your Duke tuition was paid off tomorrow, would you continue to do porn?”
Her answer was No.
If she found it so fun and wonderful then the money wouldn’t matter and she would continue to shoot porn, but that’s not the case. She doesn’t “want” to do it other than getting some cash. Every “job” revolves around financial compensation. Porn is no exception.
people do shit every single day that that don’t want to do and for one main reason: money.
If she can make more money doing porn then good for her. But, there is nothing empowering about accepting some cash to have someone spit in your face….
@erik
Her choice of porn over waitressing isn’t the issue…it’s how she qualified and justified her choice of porn by denigrating waitressing.
Crappy bosses, grabby people, long hours and low pay are all true but not one of those is left behind in her new job.
She is scrambling to make it look like she seriously looked into what life would be like. The more she talks the more evident it is she is talking out of her ass. She didn’t expect her porn and school life to collide…let me tell ya…it makes no difference how you earn a living…at times work and personal life will clash.
Beyond all the service people who are offended..how many clubs are gonna take her for appearances to market herself over the girl who says..”.wow you saw me? That’s great bring your friends next time”
Life lesson…can’t build a new bridge while burning the old one.
@Mike,
Can you kinds justify “doing porn” to pay your way through Duke, as opposed to a full ride scholarship to Vandy?
Alot of people will pontificate on this subject and say what this girl is doing is perfectly fine,,,until you ask them, would you want your own daughter or sister, or mother to do the exact same thing? Then all of the sudden they call you an asshole, beat around the bush, and never answer the question, because they know the answer is no.
Assigning morality to comments again? You are just proving my point that neither is “wrong” for the “right” person.
Having made the choice I feel qualified to speak on this. I had family and roommates who made sure I knew the realities of being a 15 year old model with a NYC apartment. I also got told that someday it would be possible that any photos or film I did could and would wind up on the internet that was expanding beyond universities and businesses with illicit use. In the late 70’s it was actually possible for women in porn to live double lives in NYC ..I was shown Deep Throat and asked …could you live down guys at work or sit down to Sunday supper with your boyfriend or husbands brothers and father jealously whispering in the next room?
It got to be routine turning down “hosting” opportunities in the Hampton’s. Sure the party would have been fun but $500 wasn’t worth being groped, dry humped or thinking up new lines that said “get lost asswipe” I got sent back to the shore when family felt it was too dangerous for me after a guy got beat to shit when he bitched about me telling him I didn’t need to fuck him to get a mainstream print job. He got told he was lucky I had the good sense to tell him off when he didn’t know better than to leave me alone. Agents kept simple “yes/no” lists but that didn’t stop assholes from asking, cajoling or trying outright manipulation. Thankfully assholes were few and far between.
As far as waitresses not making money…in 1986 slinging hash part time I made 10k more as a part time waitress than I made as a retail Bank branch manager. In 1988 after a baby and buying a house I matched my husbands white collar salary serving Lobster and five star Ala Carte.
Those years matter …of my three roommates one died in 86 the second in 88 and the last made it to 96. In the late 70’s herpes was the big worry, HepC and AIDS weren’t even on the horizon. You and this girl weren’t even born as too many of us sat shifts in ICU hoping it was our last…week after week. You have no fucking clue about gratitude for modern medicine until you’ve seen the miracle of HIV meds contrasted with the true horrors and death of AIDS.
BTW…when my family and friends presented the realities they never once told me that I couldn’t or shouldn’t choose porn or that their love and support would be denied to me. They wanted me to make a truly informed choice by showing me that what I choose today opens or closes doors down the road.
Evidence…roflmao. Want a fucking peer reviewed study about the right to choose a job that the high and mighty think is reserved for peons? See the Duke girls duplicity yet?
@erik
Why are you still trying to justify her choice by highlighting the downside of waitressing? I walked into my first restaurant at age two or three, spent nearly every weekend for the next twenty five years in restaurants and many week days too. Even the worst boss, coworker or customer never once exposed me to STD, put me in a position to have my ass ripped open or thought I should submit to behavior I’d find degrading in exchange for a tip.
If she wants to be there great..she should be there…period.
You are comparing generalities, she is comparing her experiences. Saying, “but those things exist in porn” has nothing to do with this. Unless you can prove those things exist for HER in porn or prove that she is being dishonest about her thoughts/feelings, then it is all opinion. You are trying to compare all of porn with all of the service industry. She wasn’t doing that. She was speaking on her experiences from what I have seen? Why would service people be offended that she didn’t like the job? A lawyer quits because he is unhappy in his job, do lawyers then feel offended? Were people, before this girl thinking that waitressing was great? I’m failing to see where damage was done by her comments on HER experience. You seem to think that she is being dishonest with herself or with the public, very possible. Thinking that is not evidence of your thoughts being true. She very well might be rationalizing and trying to have it both ways, we don’t know. Even if that is the case it doesn’t mean her experience in waitressing was better.
No, that’s actually not proof at all. That’s like asking if you win the lottery would you work. If you present the opportunity to not pay vs. pay people will choose not to pay. You are essentially arguing that because porn is not her absolute 1st choice that she it is something she doesn’t want to do. Why the “spit” reference every time on this forum? How many scenes did you witness her do that in? How many seconds of her life did that happen in? How many seconds did she spend being yelled and poorly p[aid by costumers in other fields of work? You can go through many jobs and make very real claims that they are unsavory and not empowering. Who cares? If this is literally people arguing over if an 18 year old used the right words to describe her job, then this is silly. Was it empowering, was it not? I don’t know how many semantic arguments can we get into. She said she felt worse in the setting of her previous jobs. Unless someone has evidence that she is being untruthful about her feelings, I don’t really understand the issue. Is the argument really whether this 18 year old is correct on “empowerment”? If that’s what people are arguing, I won’t pretend to be interested in deep diving on that.
Ok, so almost no one “wants” to do a job under that definition. If you don’t work for free it isn’t “want”. Now that we have parsed the word “want”, I guess I understand. She wants to do it more than other jobs and not doing a job is not a possibility. My “want” was in that context, I guess.
Statements of fact require evidence. Don’t know why I just read your life story, but cool, I guess.
In ’81 I was a high school senior, working as a pizza delivery guy.(yes, too funny I know writing on a porn message board), I kept that job until ’84. I made more money than my sister who worked at Northrop, and ate all the pizza and smoked all the weed I wanted. I worked in an area of Los Angeles called Highland Park, which was the main area for the largest and oldest hispanic gang in LA, the Avenues. I became friens with a bunch of them, and our garage band played at a bunch of HP/Avenues parties, they called us The Luigis(after Luigis Pizza). I never thought for an instant that delivering pizza was degrading, I was having too much fun to care.
You have no evidence that any of those porn examples happened to her. You are taking the worst of porn. I am taking the worst of waitressing. That is exactly what my comment said, weigh equally. If you want to use STD, pain, violence to paint all of porn. It follows that the worst of the service industry paints all of the service industry. If you want to try to compare HER experiences or feelings, that might be more middle ground on both sides.
“Disregard this comment” Erik, you should ad that to all of your comments, and I am just speaking from MY experience of reading your drivel.
That sounds like a good experience for you. “for you”, is the key as related to this debate.
Yeah, I’m glad you care enough to seek out my day old comments. Seems like you have a cool life as an internet troll. Just so we’re clear, I don’t expect you to agree with me. So, reading my day old comments to tell me you don’t seems pointless. Why do you seek out my comments, genuinely curious?
I live for your comments erik. You are the last remaining douchebag left on this site who spews the usual bs industry crap. There used to be a few commenters here who were actually in the industry, but they all left a while ago after their arguments kept getting shredded to peices by those who simply know better. But you just seem to enjoy the abuse that a know nothing little grasshopper seems to thrive on.
You know very little about the actual subjects being discussed here, and that is what makes you so very much like the industry douchebags that simply got tired of having their asses handed to them
You dont even know it, but you do serve a purpose here. You give us the exact reaction we need to point out the stupidity of the usual industry arguments. You cute little stateents like, Why do you seek out my comments” are exactly what we all expect from an ignorant little grasshopper like yourself. Its just too bad that all of the regular industry trolls have given up, but not you little grasshopper, Youre like the little train that could, or thought he could, but cant. Now have some ice cream, put on your pj’s, then go to bed.
I have a question about Facialabuse.com. I have read that it is filmed in the New York Area, probably somewhere around NYC. How the hell has this site been able to do that? Is it not illegal to shoot porn in New York? Something tells me that the guys on facialabuse.com must grease some pretty big wheels in order for their site not to get busted.
Another website, gloryholeswallow I believe is filmed in Arizona. How the hell does Arizona allow those guys to get away with it?
While I maybe changing the topic, I think it’s kinda interesting that these states do nothing about Porn being filmed there.
@erik
We can get I to as many semantic arguments as you like….keep diverting and sidestepping the comments on point to your comments.
“You give us the exact reaction we need to point out”? Who are you pointing it out to though? This seems an insular community, with about 10 commenters. So, you are just pointing it out to yourself?
“what we all expect”? Are you saying that the commenters here are a group of same thinkers? Why is it “we”? You speak for all?
“You know very little about the actual subjects being discussed here, and that is what makes you so very much like the industry douchebags that simply got tired of having their asses handed to them”?
Very hard to understand how any of this applies to these non-fact based opinion driven discussions.
Your overall point has always been that I am childish, dumb, ignorant, a douchebag on and on. I get that is your opinion. My question was more, what compels you to keep seeking out and responding to comments. If everyone already sees how stupid I am, what are trying to show or prove? I do enjoy the thinking that one argument is “industry crap”, but your argument is some enlightened and right way of thinking. It’s Fox News. “Don’t let the outside fool you, any opinion that isn’t yours is just douchebags” – FoxNews/Jilted. It’s certainly a way of thinking, not sure if it does any good, but it’s a thing.
Is “stateent” the greek translation for statement? Just making sure I understand your whole negativity correctly. Live for other things too though, not just negativity toward others. Keep fighting
@erik
Where’s the proof the word “want” was parsed?
Are you still seriously looking for a virtual wedgie?
“on point to your comments”? I’m honestly not sure what this means. I was trying to understand the basis for the argument. If my question was invalid, that’s okay. Just as it’s okay for me to ask/wonder what the big issue is. Maybe I’m misreading your comment, seems you were trying to say I was diverting/sidestepping. Was I asked something I didn’t answer? Hard to divert a free-flowing comment thread. Only way that is even possible is if people respond to it. Don’t know if saying, “Is this a big deal” is diverting. Seems kinda like questioning the exact thing being argued, in other words talking about the exact same thing as everyone else.
When you start offering some factual arguments we can talk proof.
You want to throw doubting Thomas Devils Advocate bullshit then get fucking real…where I Grew up your ass would be dead. You sit in your safe little fucking dream world and try to tell people who know a thing or two that…erik2690 is entitled to “proof” and expects a peer reviewed study to dispute every hypothetical argument he puts out there.
Here’s a statement of fact….Erik don’t know shit…evidenced by your comments.
Don’t know what a “virtual wedgie” is? Are you a bully or amateur comedian? This is the comment where “want” was parsed: http://www.mikesouth.com/mike-south-commentary/sometimes-i-am-clueless-though-not-necessarily-wrong-9292/?replytocom=18469#respond
Saying, not wanting to do it for free means not wanting to do it seemed a very narrow definition of “want”.
Don’t know if that link works. It was Lacey’s comment above that I felt was a narrow definition of “want”. Her comment was a response to me and mine to her. Not sure what you’re upset about.
@jilted
Exactly. When that didn’t fit or wasn’t enough you moved on.
“where I Grew up your ass would be dead”? What? This is weird. First off, who knows? Second, who cares? What does this have to do with anything at all?
I’m not entitled to proof. Facts require proof. That’s how you have facts. It isn’t my rule at all. I’ve never heard an argument against facts not requiring evidence. Hypotheticals and opinions don’t require facts unless you want to convince people they are true.
“Here’s a statement of fact….Erik don’t know shit…evidenced by your comments.” I disagree. I have never made a comment that reflects my knowledge on this. Really for all you know I could know everything about it: the color, the size, the smell, what had been digested, the species that left it, if it indicates health. I might not know shit, but none of my comments could lead you to know my knowledge of fecal matter. This is pure speculation and opinion. Please provide more proof.
Absolutely, but was anyone claiming that working and or not working in service industries was wrong? What made defending service industry a necessity in this story? She was referring to her experience only, correct?
@erik2690
Put up or shut the fuck up….where have I tried to “paint all of porn” or compare my experience to hers?
It seems we’ve moved back to Erik says we all hate porn, assign some deep hidden moral challenge to her choice, don’t have proof that she denigrated the rejected option of serving food vs sex, know not a damn thing about feminist empowerment and need a peer reviewed study to prove the banality of his bullshit hypothetical attempts at misdirection.
I’m sure the folks feeding you kool-aid are impressed with your on point and direct debating tactics. 😉
Please tell me who these “folks” are so I can address you head on? Instead of smiley faces, say what you mean. Rob Black, FSC? Who are you talking about. So you have an opinion and it’s right and of your own thought. I have a different opinion and it’s fed to me and wrong? How do interact in the real world?
“where have I tried to “paint all of porn” or compare my experience to hers?”
“Even the worst boss, coworker or customer never once exposed me to STD, put me in a position to have my ass ripped open or thought I should submit to behavior I’d find degrading in exchange for a tip.”
So you weren’t trying to point to all the worst of porn without acknowledging the worst of service industry in this quote?
@mdxxx
The stereotype that porn is limited to the valley where it’s legal is just that a mythical mystery.
Kinda hard to police everything from pre-recorded video by known names visiting the local club “to promote their brand” to amateur uploads and live streaming. Shhh as long as the sheriff can say he’s keeping the riffraff out of sight he’s doing a fine job 🙂
No I wasn’t trying to paint all of porn anymore than I expect she was trying to paint all waitresses. Still doesn’t offer any proof to your repeated denials that her presentation doesn’t offend millions waitresses who know the downsides she mentioned didn’t go away because she chooses to serve sex vs food.
There ya go….the service industry. TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service 🙂 don’t make a damn bit of difference what yer serving; if you want to earn higher gratuities you do what you gotta do to make the customer happy.
You know whose comments you repeat near verbatim. It’s amusing that you have yet to present one of those near verbatim comments before the folks feeding you the kool-aid post them elsewhere. Good dog…keep fetching.
@erik
You’re a punk…plain and simple.
Tearing apart peoples opinions and demanding proof from folks in a better position to know what they’re saying is a good way to end up dead where I come from. An opinion is just that…an opinion stated by an individual and doesn’t require peer reviewed studies or encyclopedias backing them up.
Someday you’ll be a big dog and know the value of your bark. Someday yer bark bite even indicate you have a bite too.
“You know whose comments you repeat near verbatim. It’s amusing that you have yet to present one of those near verbatim comments before the folks feeding you the kool-aid post them elsewhere. Good dog…keep fetching.”
I literally don’t and I dare you to say what you mean without innuendo. How am I supposed to refute that vague BS? Say what you mean, don’t be a coward. You get to assume about me without any proof, but I have to take you seriously? People who say stupid stuff like “You wouldn’t last where I come from” and yet don’t have the courage to say what they mean? Once again this is the only porn gossip sit I visit. Sometimes Adultdvdtalk, but that isn’t really the same vain. Rob Black is the only other one I’ve heard of and I literally don’t agree with him on anything. I genuinely and seriously don’t know who the “folks” are. You and others say this and then don’t follow through, how can I possibly refute a veiled claim. Put a stamp on it.
“Still doesn’t offer any proof to your repeated denials that her presentation doesn’t offend millions waitresses”? How exactly would people be offended by her saying she had a bad experience? Where did she say it was a bad or immoral job in any broad sense? It’s a logically silly claim.
So much wrong here. Me saying “show evidence” is just as valid as your opinion. My statement isn’t overruled by your opinion. You don’t have to show evidence, of course. You only have to show proof/evidence if you want to sway people. If you don’t mind not swaying me that is fine (although why do you keep responding if not?).
“Tearing apart peoples opinions and demanding proof from folks in a better position to know what they’re saying is a good way to end up dead where I come from.”?
Don’t know where to start. Is claiming to know that people die for saying the wrong thing supposed to make yo seem cool or tough. It makes you seem silly. Questioning people’s opinions is widely seen as fairly legitimate. That’s why they call it an “opinion”, because one person’s can differ from anothers. I don’t know where the peer reviewed study line came from, I never said that. For an opinion to be persuasive it needs evidence. You know how you don’t agree with my opinions and call names? I feel the same about your opinions. You see how that works?
“You’re a punk…plain and simple.” It’s not that simple. You know nothing about me. You disagree with me. I certainly don’t anonymously talk about how if someone did this or that they would die. That seems like a punk to me. Just because I’m not an over 50 spending my days on porn comments doesn’t mean I’m a punk. Maybe get off your own lawn.
“Someday yer bark bite”. No idea what this means.
What are you talking about?
I never once said anything about money, free, pay or anything like that…
The points:
HER:
I love doing porn. It feels like home and I’m surrounded by an extended family. It makes me feel completely liberated and empowered plus I don’t have to be degraded working as a waitress for minimum wage. I make good money doing porn and it helps with tuition costs.
REPORTER:
Well, if someone offered to pay for your tuition would you continue doing porn?
HER:
No.
It was never stated anywhere that she would then continue doing porn for free… The issue here is that she claims porn is great, wonderful, she feels at home and makes good money SO why in the world would she stop? She is only shooting scenes during school breaks so she can’t claim that it interferes with school.
The answer is: If her tuition was paid for then she wouldn’t continue doing porn because she doesn’t WANT to…..
She could very easily shoot a few scenes on school breaks and make a few thousand bucks to cover other costs or save up for a car, etc.
But, the simple fact is that she doesn’t WANT to shoot porn, if she had the choice. There’s NOTHING wrong with that, but don’t release statements preaching about how wonderfully liberating it is and now she feels empowered because someone outted her…
It makes NO fucking sense… Actually, most of her rationalizations don’t make sense.
Ok, you may not think I deserve a favor, but I really want to try to gauge something. Please help me. This is for mainly Lurking and Jilted. I have a question that is off topic, but will help me gauge who I am speaking to. I will not respond to your replies as it will drag this completely away from porn. Just this question: What do you think of the Snowden leaks?
UHH…. this is from you- “If she found it so fun and wonderful then the money wouldn’t matter and she would continue to shoot porn, but that’s not the case.”
You mention money and that “wanting” would mean doing it for free. You mention most of what you say you didn’t.
“But, the simple fact is that she doesn’t WANT to shoot porn, if she had the choice.”
I guess. If you are told the thing you are making the money for is paid for, then this sentiment would probably apply to any job for an 18 year old. There is no evidence that the response had to with porn, other than that’s what was asked. So yes, if she doesn’t need the money she would just focus on school. I still think it’s a narrow definition because she “wants” to do porn over other jobs. She just wouldn’t continue leaving to shoot if money wasn’t a concern. It’s a made up scenario with an easy answer. Not real life. Her choices are porn or other jobs. She wanted to do porn over the other jobs.
You aren’t questioning my opinion or seeking clarity for why I stand where I do…nor are you presenting facts or evidence to dispute the opinions you demand facts and evidence to back up.
It’s quite obvious you aren’t a 50+ hence the term pup. Someday your bark might indicate you have a bite too…means simply you may not always be a tea cup Yorkshire terrier yipping at the big dogs.
@Lacey
“It makes NO fucking sense… Actually, most of her rationalizations don’t make sense.”
Ah now I get it…Erik sees the “sense” in her rationalizations and we must be dumb shlubs who are anti-porn because were too unsophisticated to see what they know and we couldn’t have a clue about.
No you said this, “Someday yer bark bite”. I guess you meant something different.
“You aren’t questioning my opinion”? That is what you yourself have said I was doing and it is what I am doing. I’m not presenting facts or proof because I’m purely stating opinion not trying to sway. I just said, opinions don’t require evidence if you don’t care about swaying people. So if I ask for evidence or question opinions, it’s silly or childish. Yet, when I state an opinion it gets smacked down and people throw names around. Where is the difference. No one has come back at my opinions with evidence, just calling it stupid. It seems my way of asking for evidence is just a more polite less angry version of what you do when you disagree with me. Your words don’t indicate bite anymore than mine. Kinda a silly sentiment, how can anonymous blog commenting indicate real life action? To sum up evidence is only needed if you want to sway people. I don’t mean present evidence or you don’t get to speak or something like that. I mean present evidence if you want your opinion to be taken as fact.
No, actually I commented that she could obviously rationalizing. Or she could be genuine. You don’t know. You seem to attach clarity to your opinion of reading an interview of someone you don’t know. I’m not claiming that she isn’t rationalizing at all. Sounds like she could be. I just don’t claim to know that she is lying to herself after reading some printed words. Didn’t call anyone dumb, only you and a couple others call names and talk about how other commenters would die.
@Erik…. oh my gosh dude you’ve worn me out!!! … first I couldn’t believe you thought the regulars here are anti-porn and then this whole needing to always state fact thing is a down right bore! …this is a blog with commenters stating various opinions and sometimes mentioning facts…. it is not required to state a fact when stating an opinion…..that’s why it’s an opinion….A fact is considered something proven to be true and an opinion is a personal belief that is not founded on proof or certainty….. enough said!!!