Someone posted on my blog a couple weeks ago.
“How long do you think it will be before the FSC takes credit for taking down Pwl?”
it got a laugh or two…well today Diane Duke of the FSC did EXACTLY that. No mention of ANYONE who actuially DID have anything to do with it except Michael Whiteacre and it painted it as though he was helping the FSC.
And the FSC wonders why they have NO FUCKING CREDIBILITY with anyone.
I won’t link to the story because its an absolute affront to me. I hope AVN has better integrity than to run that garbage.
[AVN actually ran a much more accurate story based on an interview I did last week]
The balls on the fucking gutless cowards
People, give your money to a prostitute instead of the FSC she works hard and honestly for it and you get what you pay for.
FUCK YOU Diane Duke I expect people will see this for what it is and you and The FSC will deservedly go the route of AIM.
46 Responses
Mike, where in that article did FSC claim it “took down PWL”? Here’s the ENTIRE section on FSC:
“It turned out that the FSC was not doing nothing, but what it was doing was a far cry from the aggressive and more immediate and hands-on efforts undertaken by the group represented by South.
AVN spoke to FSC executive director Diane Duke for this article, and asked for a comment on the takedown of PWL and the suggestion that it was doing nothing about the site.
‘Kudos to those instrumental in bringing the site down,’ Duke told AVN. ‘Utilizing skilled hackers working outside the authorities, it looks as if this group was able to mitigate further damage to performers. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.’
She added, ‘The Free Speech Coalition has been the primary liaison with law enforcement working to bring those who committed serious criminal acts against the performer community to justice. It is critical that would be attackers understand that the adult entertainment community will not tolerate illegal attacks on the privacy of our performers.'”
Dane Duke THANKS those who brought PWL down, and claims that FSC worked with authorities on the CRIMINAL side of the PWL affair.
The tagline of the article is “AVN speaks with MIke South on the takedown of PWL.” The primary subject of the article is YOU: you’re quoted all over that article — including the first AND lasts quotes of the piece — while Diane only has two pull quotes.
I really don’t get it.
Mike are you refering to this news???
http://business.avn.com/articles/legal/FSC-AIM-Closure-Porn-Wikileaks-What-Happened-442352.html
no avn got it right….theres another less reliable org out there that totally got it wrong.
Michael as you now know I wasnt refering to the AVN bit, they got it right I was talking about that turd XBiz.
It looks like it’s written for you, Mike. At least as a result of yours and DWB’s questions.
“If we have learned nothing from what happened with AIM we have learned the problems that come with poor communication. AIM sorely fell short in this respect and frankly, it has not been my strongest attribute either. The FBI asked us to hold off talking about PWL and to tell you the truth, I waited too long to tell this story.”
It’s a kind of apology and she didn’t take credit, she just stated what was being done and then “… due to the work of a group of creative hackers, the site already had been taken down.”
It sounds like she’s just stating what they were and are doing.
The way she wrote it she made it sound as though The FSC would have had pwl down hours after we did had we not been involved. We know for certain that is bullshit, as I will point out in a future blog.
Yes her entire press release was a response to questions we have been asking but it was self serving and non responsive.
The satisfaction I am getting from reading about the contempt for the FSC over this on OTHER industry blogs is the only thing that kept me from REALLY blowing a fuse.
I’m pleased that by and large porn people do get it…I have a mail box stuffed with proof of that.
What really lead to PWL being taken down?
1) Some random person got his hands on the PWL User Database.
2) we started researching email addresses and who they belonged to.
3) we outed Donny longs wife and kid and money guy
4) Donny closed the site
There were many many things that went on in between those steps, but those are the bare bottom cliffs notes. As soon as Donny’s wife, child, and money got were found, the site was shut down about 15 minutes later.
FSC didn’t do shit.
^^^ Right on the money^^^^^
I don’t even know what Diane Duke looks like nor have I ever talked to her, but I already think she is full of shit (sorry Michael, but I call it like I see it). I would guess the FSC did what it always does, sitting on their asses twiddling their thumbs, fucking the latest fresh off the bus talent or something else stupid. Heck, if it wasn’t for a few large producers paying dues, they would probably be bankrupt right now! Their message used to be on the beginning of any Adam & Eve or Vivid tape/DVD (I think it was on Wicked’s tapes/DVDs as well). I haven’t seen their promo message on a recent DVD in years now, so I would bet their porn fan revenues have dried up. The internet companies never really did promote the FSC on their sites (for the most part).
I think the FSC should be replaced with a lobbying organization to convince our government to actually enforce the First Amendment (and the Charter in Canada). Whether it meets community values or not, anything short of killing or seriously maiming someone (pretty obvious) or child molestation (I don’t believe in messing with kids, also pretty obvious that should be banned) should be legal as entertainment.
“FBI agents asked that we not disclose that we were working with them until they were able to gather the information needed for the successful prosecution of anyone who committed a crime.”
But now they ARE talking about it, which means they DO have the information needed for a successful prosecution. Yet not a single person has been arrested, questioned, or even officially named. “Official channels” at work. #FAIL
They need a better spin doctor.
If I was the guy running PornWikiLeaks, I’d mail the FSC an autographed 8×10 glossy photo of my balls and let them know they are next. Hell, I may even toss in a map to my house, because they wouldn’t do anything if they had it. PWL would have DESTROYED the FSC and the lives of all of those involved if the FSC would have actually tried to take them offline.
@mharris127 writes (of FSC): “I haven’t seen their promo message on a recent DVD in years now.” If you pop in a DVD from Hustler, Vivid, Wicked, New Sensations or many others you will see one or both of FSC’s anti-piracy PSAs (often right at the start of the DVD). Next, mharris127 writes: “The internet companies never really did promote the FSC on their sites (for the most part).” That’s right, the internet companies don’t really give two shits about adult movie production in California. They just move traffic. If they had their druthers, everything would be webcam girls or other content they can get cheap.
@Mike – I saw Tom’s article before I read the other piece. However, I think Diane’s quotes in the XBIZ piece and (especially in) Tom’s article, illustrate her intention to thank others for ending PWL. And when it comes to the fact that other people in your bubble have contempt for FSC, “I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.” Again, SEE: “Conformation Bias.”
@DWB – How do you know hat not a single person has been arrested or questioned? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
@Michael Whiteacre “That’s right, the internet companies don’t really give two shits about adult movie production in California.”
There’s the entire problem with the FSC in a nutshell. They try to bill themselves as the trade organization for the entire adult industry, yet their focus remains to be movie production in California. Having spent 13 years working on the Internet side of the business I’ve seen California production become just a small part of the adult industry. There’s far more production done outside of Porn Valley, and more and more outside the USA.
@Toby – Let’s see, why on earth would FSC focus on production in California. Gee, I don’t know, maybe it’s because 1) CA production IS UNDER CONSTANT FUCKING ATTACK; or 2) CA production is its traditional institutional base; and/or 3) CA production entities are current, active, vocal members of FSC.
If one wants a trade organization to advocate for one’s interests, it is advisable that one actually join that organization. Just sayin’… FSC doesn’t read Gene Ross’ tea leaves — you need to step up and tell them what you want to see done.
Besides that, you have completely twisted my quote on its head. The problem, IMO, is not that FSC doesn’t support internet companies’ right to make and sell adult entertainment, it’s that many internet companies don’t support FSC because not only don’t they care where the content comes from and, in fact, they’d PREFER that they had less competition from CA productions.
I’ve been to the webmaster shows, Toby. You wanna know what I saw? — a bunch of credit card processing reps and others whose only connection to adult movies is shaking Joanna Angel’s hand after a panel. As you tacitly acknowledge, if the adult industry is driven out of existence in California by authoritarian fuckwads, you guys won’t lose a minute’s sleep — you’ll just go take your cut from a no-name webcam girl’s feed and push some foreign-produced content.
The adult industry isn’t just movies, it isn’t just California, it isn’t just the USA, and it hasn’t been for a very long time. Yet many in California, including FSC, seem to behave as if it still is. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
FSC has been told time and again by webmasters, Internet producers, and others what they want, what they don’t want, and what they need. After years of not much of anything coming of it, understandably they’ve quit worrying about what the FSC is doing and gone on about taking care of their own business.
Oh and for the record, I’ve been to my share of webmasters shows. I first met Mike at one in Tampa. They are a pretty poor representation of the adult Internet industry. My income last year came from over 140 different sources, only a handful of whom attend shows.
2 things, first for the last fucking time..PWL wasnt takin down by a Hack..
and most importantly, until i started beefing with PWL, i never new what IMO stood for…Now i can use IMO freely and feel like im smarter for it…keep in mind its just MO…Feel free to use MO when ever you need to..
Now if anyone needs me i will be preparing for my 14 fantasy football drafts
@Toby – Only a handful attend shows, meaning that the remainder likely have an even more tangential relationship to the issues affecting adult performers and adult production.
The difference between the VAST majority of those guys and someone like Mike South is that, despite the fact that he does not produce content in California, MIKE actually has a conscience and CARES about the people in the business in the broadest sense. That means the performers and the “good guys” out there who get them work and who treat them well in business.
You write, “The adult industry isn’t just movies, it isn’t just California, it isn’t just the USA.” I never claimed otherwise. But you again forget to acknowledge one thing: if the web guys had their druthers, the “nuisance” of competing with California-produced content would be alleviated.
Tell me, Toby, where do you stand on .XXX? I know where Mike and I (and FSC) stand on it, but where do you stand?
Right on Sean
Love you brother….as I do everyone who fought hard in this fight Michael, Mercedes, Monica, January, Mark Speigler (who deserves more credit than he has gotten), and all the people who didn’t want to be named ever, who were indispensible and from many different countries. We showed the world that good people can make a difference and that international borders, ethnic groups, political ideologies and religion didn’t matter we all worked together as humans and we got it done. There’s a lesson for the world there.
Michael i know where Toby stands on .XXX he doesn’t like it either. I also don’t think that Toby wishes any ill will on California based porn, matter of fact, since I know him and his business I would bet he wants it to succeed, but I wont speak for him, only that I know Toby and I know what he does and what he has done for the biz.
@Michael – It would have made news already and probably gloated about on AVN and XBIZ. The industry, especially the online industry, is filled with too many detectives and people who catch odd news from all over the world. That’s how I know.
With that said, you guys may come out guns a blazing and get ‘er done. I’m just commenting on the odd statement claiming the FBI wanted them to remain silent until they had enough evidence.
BTW… thank you for the links you posted on the other thread.
@sean LOL!
People — including FSC, I’m not in sync with them on this part — don’t seem to get that there were SEVERAL prongs in the offensive against PWL. As noted above, by Donnysgoingdown, a bunch of people worked together to out PWL’s supporters and money man (and to turn up the heat on the Donkey).
On the “tech” side, from my understanding there was at least one ddos attack (don’t ask me what exactly that means) on PWL, maybe others. I sure as hell didn’t ask for it to be done, but I don’t regret that it happened one damn bit. But crashing a server doesn’t mean the site is “taken down.”
There were also people who had legitimate access to the site who “came to Jesus” either out of conscience, or fear and the instinct for self preservation, and turned over information implicating and/or aiding in the identification of fellow PWLers. I never saw any information from the PWL site that I know to have been hacked — as in someone breaking in to the site and stealing it. Apparently, at one point, Donny’s Hotmail was hacked (by person or persons unknown), but that is not the same as hacking one of his sites.
@DWB – Thank you, however I don’t think that arrest (or questioning) of people who were PWL supporters/moderators who are not part of the online community per se would necessarily make the news or pop up on the online industry’s radar — especially since very few of them have been named publicly by the anti-PWL forces at this point — but I could well be wrong.
A for the admittedly odd statement about FBI, as someone who has spoken with FBI investigators in this matter on several occasions, I can assure you it is truthful and accurate.
@Micheal – I think you’re missing my point. California is part of the adult industry, they’re just not THE adult industry. It’s not a competition of California vs the rest of the world. I promote those that have quality content and do business honestly. Some of them are based in California, some in Florida, some in Canada, UK, Germany, Netherlands, etc. Where they’re located isn’t relevant to the quality of the content or their honesty.
As for my stance on .XXX, I think Stuart Lawley is greedy scum sucking bastard. Is that clear enough?
@Toby – Yes, your position on .XXX is clear enough, and we are in 100% complete accord. LOL
As for the content producers – my point is that you, by your own admission, are not vested in California-based productions. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you must recognize that those production companies constitute FSC historic institutional base. YES, you are correct that the industry is changing, and I even agree with your analysis, but the fact remains that much of the web community is frankly at cross purposes with the traditional production industry in the US, and it’s wrong to expect that FSC or any company or organization would be willing to throw their historical (as well as vocal, dues-paying) base under the bus to benefit people who don’t care whence the content derives.
And, if you were in California, you might well disagree with the statement that “It’s not a competition of California vs the rest of the world.” But, does the industry need to adapt? Absolutely.
Michael, within the last six months I have ordered a four pack of Wicked DVDs. The FSC message was nowhere on them. Some of the more recent Adam and Eve releases I have watched did not have them either. Obviously I cannot afford to order every DVD from these companies to check for the FSC promo clip, but from what I have seen (obviously limited as I state above) if the FSC clip is still being included in their movies it certainly isn’t every one.
I do have to agree with you regarding most internet based producers (not all, Kink.com is an example of a company plowing a lot of money into its scenes and actually benefiting at least a portion of the community) that they do not seem to give a shit about anything except their bottom line and are very short sighted regarding their attitude in the industry. The porn tube sites are even worse. An example of this is the AIM situation. If every company (both internet and DVD) had put up $10,000, a valid and medically sound replacement for AIM would be up and running right now and the industry would not be in the precarious situation it is in now regarding VD testing. I can only imagine the waiting times and the line to get into the Northridge Talent Testing office right now, it has to be out the door and almost to the ocean five days a week! It seems like any reasonable company’s management would care enough about the talent and their company’s reputation that they would want a replacement for AIM immediately (hopefully not run as poorly as AIM was) with a database that at least tells producers that talent has tested and the validity dates of his or her test by stage name! Not being in the industry, I can’t say for sure but my educated guess is that a fair size portion of talent has been forced to go to private doctors for their tests, of which there is not any manner to verify that the test is not forged. Remember Marc Wallice, anyone? He forged test documents after he was diagnosed with HIV and infected Tricia Deveraux and several other women in the late 1990’s. This could happen at any time as long as the current official testing clinic cannot handle the patient load that is being forced upon it. TTS has already increased the turnaround time to three days according to their website and I think it is only going to increase in the near future. Before PWL and that “foundation” brought down AIM, turnaround was one day for HIV test results and two for other tests.
Michael, you seem like a decent man but you really need to tell your friend Diane to get off her ass and get the testing situation taken care of right now! A temporary clinic could be set up at a cooperating doctor’s office with an attached lab that can do the testing, it could be affiliated with Talent Testing’s database temporarily but with its own lab for processing tests if need be within two or three days if you really worked at it for the time being (use a test draw site for San Francisco based companies, I think Talent Testing has a outside draw site for this purpose that might not be overloaded as badly but with the testing itself taking three days another lab facility still needs to be converted to adult industry VD testing only). A computer programmer could set up a producer verification program within a week if you have to start from scratch and a doctor could be found to convert his office to a testing/lab site. Get the member companies of FSC to put up the money and get it done! Lives depend on this issue! If the FSC can’t even do this, it is not any good for anything.
@Mharris127 – FSC’s testing program, and database, launches this week. Yesterday, Ron Jeremy proudly inaugurated one of the draw centers. In my (limited) personal experience, and IMO, Talent Testing are assholes. YMMV. The new FSC system has 1 day turnaround for California. ONE day, not three, not five. That is because one of the doctor’s office/clinic/draw stations is two doors down from one of the biggest labs in California. I have toured this particular lab and clinic and I will tell you it looks incredible. The doctor and staff are wonderful.
There is at least one other lab in the program, but I have not yet seen the facility, so I can’t comment other than to say they are respected and reputable. I look forward to becoming familiar with them in the near future. Either way, performers will now have a choice of places to go for testing, as well as a database that will not contain the kinds of information that made the breach which PWL exploited so dangerous to performers.
As for the DVDs, I’ve got a stack of ’em here. I don’t know what percentage of Wicked movies has the PSAs (many certainly do — Kaylani recently cornered me and told me how proud she was to appear in it and mentioned that she had received feedback about it from Wicked consumers), but all of Hustler/LFP’s releases from the last year apparently open with the Charlie Laine PSA for FSC, and my copies of Axel’s recent movies for Vivid (the only recent Vivid movies I own) all have the 13-star PSA (which also features Axel). Those PSAs are also approaching 1 million total views on YouTube and other video sites. They were written up in every major newspaper, from the New York Times to Der Spiegel, they were covered by Wired, Huffington Post, msnbc, etc., and were even featured in The Economist! — as well as on the local news in every major US market last year. Please look for them. I directed them “pro bono”, and called in many other favors to get them done for about the cost of craft service on a regular production. FSC did not spend a dime of member or donor money on producing them. And I’lll emphasize, when FSC put out the call to performers and producers to appear in its PSAs (or provide contract talent), they responded and came through. We had many more offers to appear than available slots. One of my few regrets is that Kayden Kross — who had been slated to appear in it — was working that night and became unavailable. We have worked together since, and will be doing so again.
@mharris127 – You actually paid for 4 Wicked movies?
That is probably the most bizarre thing in this entire thread.
@Michael – A “simple” yes or “no” will work. Has anyone been arrested yet?
It would be public record if so.
Please check one:
[YES] At least one person has been arrested.
[NO] No one has been arrested…
DWB – If you want to demand an answer from me you’d better send a subpoena, but I’ll indulge you:
I would have to know their legal name(s) to be able to check if they’d been arrested. That information (names) will be made available to those who have filed civil actions and subpoenaed ISPs.
@Michael – I don’t demand anything, hence the “please” part. I’m just trying to cut through the bull shit, but it’s pretty thick. I ask you if anyone has been arrested because I already know the answer and wanted to see if you would continue to play the FSC secrets game to give the illusion that maybe something has been done by the FSC. Besides, if anyone has been arrested it would be public record.
Those involved in PWL have already had their legal names and full info listed, as well as where they are located with Google earth images showing their home. You know that. Not sure how much more info you’d need to take action via “official channels.” I suppose someone could drive the FBI to their house, but we both know the FBI isn’t doing anything, and neither is the FSC.
As to why I know there has yet to be a single arrest, it is because I know one of them and I can confirm he has not so much as been questioned about his involvement. He also says no one he knows who was involved has so much as been questioned. So I stand by my original comment of this being total bull shit. No one can even figure out how the DB was breached, if breached at all, in the first place. How many months has it been now? And the fucking thing is STILL online and everyone is as clueless today as they were when the info first leaked.
Really, then tell me — what is Coke Stevenson’s real name and address. Where does it appear online? Or HollyWellinFan.
Please do tell.
And if you know who these PWL people are and refuse to assist us, then you are a worthless sorry sack of shit just like the rest of them. And you too can be subpoenaed. Thank you for the heads up.
@Michael – “And if you know who these PWL people are and refuse to assist us then you are a worthless sorry sack of shit just like the rest of them.”
What’s the old saying, “If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.”
You now sound like PornWikileaks. Congratulations.
“And you too can be subpoenaed.”
LOL Good luck with that.
@Michael – Lets make a deal. You give me a copy of the letter the FBI was going to send to PWL hosting company, along with the names of the agents the FSC was working with, and I’ll give you Coke Stevenson’s real name.
@DWB – So you’re unwilling to answer my questions. I asked you to put up or shut up, and you won’t do either. I am Jack’s complete lack of surpise. I have no more time to waste debating these matters with someone who’s not even on US soil and whose relationship to the current mainstream adult industry, and the actual victims of PWL — including and especially the performers — is far more distant than even Mike’s.
My track record on PWL is unassailable — everything I have asserted here and elsewhere about what was going on behind the scenes has been proved out TO THE FUCKING LETTER. That’s because, unlike you, DWB, I don’t play games or talk out my ass. I don’t care who you are or what you may have (or think you may have) contributed, you — an anonymous fucking troll who makes assertions and then doesn’t back them up — have no fucking right, standing or gravitas to impugn my credibility or character. I put my face and my resume behind what I put out before the public — what the fuck do you offer?
I mean this from the bottom of my heart, unless ALL of us can focus on the very real, grave issues at hand, instead of attacking people who are trying to help and who have never wronged you, I’m done. You can go back to parroting each other’s uninformed or semi-informed opinions, and demeaning those with whom you disagree, without the further burden of my commentary or assistance.
@Mike – I’m in the middle of this nonsense with you and Joanne and FSC. I’ve been in the middle before, and comfortable there at times, but in this case I don’t think there was one good reason for me to have been placed there again. You could have called her or you could have called me, but instead you took the public route. Here, then, is my public statement.
This entire affair represents a crossroads for you and for me and for everyone in the adult industry. Do we want to do good — lasting good — or do we want to prolong old grudges and infighting? Do we want to take the high road, or the low road? Do we want to work together, or would we rather dwell on decades-old bullshit? Do we want to demagogue or do we want to illuminate? This is the eye of the needle, and we all must pass through it.
The fact that you and I (and others) could join forces and work together on something as important as the PWL debacle gave me hope that we could all set our differences aside in the name of what’s right and work together for the future. But, to my mind, the direction your site has taken in the last week has cast that in grave doubt.
You are no more a porn god than I am a law god or any other kind of deity. We are just two men who believe in free speech and free expression, who despise injustice, and who have, over the years, known and worked with many people in the adult industry, and who have strong opinions about what we see. Despite our differences, we possess enough integrity to set them aside to work together in achieving what we believe was right. You’re not just a producer and advocate — you’re a person with experiences, feelings and character. I’m hopeful you will stipulate that the same goes for me.
Along similar lines, Free Speech Coalition is not just an organization — FSC is made up of people. People who work on behalf of, and many of whom actually are active members of, the mainstream adult production industry and its supporting institutions. Some may be, in your view, holdovers from a bygone era, but in many respects so you are, Mike. You may disagree with their stands on this or that — it’s you absolute right — but to impugn their character and their motivation, or to pass judgement on their likelihood of success in dealing with matters far-flung from your distant perch is simply wrong or just plain silly. What gives you greater gravitas or more credibility in talking about this industry — today’s industry — and tackling its problems than FSC board members and industry veterans like Evil Angel’s Christian Mann or Kink.com’s Peter Acworth? Or strong, vocal FSC supporters like Wicked Pictures and Hustler/LFP and Girlfriends Films? Do I agree with everything FSC has ever done? Hell no. Do I believe they’ve always taken the best route even on matters where I agree with them in principle? Hell no. But, you know, I can’t think of a single organization I’ve supported or even heard of that never makes missteps, or that pleases 100% of its constituents 100% of the time.
You claim that FSC has no standing to represent performers because it has no input from performers — well check out Diane Duke’s recent statement on FSC’s APHSS program: “We have created an advisory board consisting of PERFORMERS, producers, agents a medical consultant and a workplace safety attorney… We have selected the initial board to get the program off the ground but once in place the program participants will elect their won representatives.”
You talk about how you were proud to support FSC back in Bill Margold’s era. Was that your idea of effective leadership for this industry? For Chrissakes, Bill Margold is someone who thought it was a great idea to place Anita Cannibal onto an official Cal-OSHA advisory committee!! She LITERALLY stumbled in to the June 7th meeting, and rambled incoherently, and that was her contribution to that day. God knows what they must think of performers after dealing with that freakshow all this time. And that was Margold’s doing. But Bill Margold is now ancient history. He has gone the way of the dodo, as has much of what you (and I) remember from the industry of old. We all have to grow, and move on.
You have your opinions of FSC and its board and leadership, and they have opinions about you — but overall, and over time, they have been FAR more charitable to you than the other way around. In recent days, you’ve been attacking them on Twitter, and encouraging your followers to do so as well, but they’ve taken the high road with regard to you. In fact, as you know, it is Joanne who does FSC’s Twitter, and even she could set her feelings aside to promote some measure of harmony in the wake of what you, and your commenters wrote about her and FSC. You don’t know her at all, Mike. And the opinions of people who do, like Julie Meadows (who’s actually known her longer than I have), have been dismissed here. She is a good and caring person who loves the people in this industry as much as you and I do, and who has responsibilities to the organization which employs her. She has roots in every corner of the mainstream adult business — straight/gay, video/online, novelty/retail, etc. — as both a writer and an advocate. (I’ve been around the industry since 1993-94 and she knows more people currently involved in it than I do. I GUARANTEE that if you and DWB and she all walked into an industry event, she’d be on strong personal and business terms with more members of today’s industry than you and your faceless troll combined.)
And, as you acknowledge, Joanne too is entitled to her opinion of you, and of anyone else. If she could go back and write that email differently, would she? Probably. You’d have to ask her. But you never asked her, and you never sought to work out any problems you two might have had; you have an opinion of her based upon one phone call — where you hollered at her — and one private email sent during a very tense time.
I’ll state it again: I do not think the affair (re: FSC) has shown ANYONE in their best light — including and perhaps especially you, Mike; and it pains me to write that. It’s not that you’re not entitled to express your views; of course you are. And you had the right to publish that email along with your commentary. But it was still a shitty, small thing to do IN THE CONTEXT OF SOMETHING AS SIGNIFICANT AS PWL — especially without bothering to get her side first. It’s the difference between journalism and foot-stomping. One educates and appeals to the intellect, the other incites and appeals to emotions.
You have your cheering section Mike, but I’ve also received emails, from industry members and fans of adult entertainment, that take a much different view. These messages feature people wondering why, in the afterglow of an apparent victory over evil, would you devote so much time to stomping your feet and thumping your chest? Diane Duke’s interview with AVN thanked us as a group — were you really expecting her to single you — of all people — out? Is it reasonable to expect her to single you out in a press release for her own organization? You lambast FSC at every turn; did you have any reason to beileive she’d drive readers directly to you and your site? And, I’m sorry but your claim that the “inference” to be drawn from her statements was that FSC was taking credit rings hollow when one actually reads the statements.
And, for the record, the assumption (which I do not share because I know you and I am 100% certain that you DO care deeply about the performers) that you got into this crusade, and that you’re prolonging and expanding this mayhem, and insisting on credit, in order to enjoy and sustain increased traffic to this site is NOT merely some charge that FSC whispers in conspiratorial tones to discredit you. Nor is it being whispered at all around Los Angeles. I have had numerous high profile (including one EXTREMELY high profile) members of the industry say it to my face over the last week. Regardless of your intentions vis-a-vis PWL (which to me are unassailable), you’re suddenly in the limelight, and DESERVEDLY SO — why use it to knock others down? PWL was not about you or Sean or Spiegler or Monica or Mercedes or FSC or AIM or the performers as a group or the innocent victims. It was about ALL OF US. All of us. And the anti-PWL effort is and was not you or Sean or any one of us, and Donny mano a mano. PWL and the charge against it also represented an opportunity for all of, and it’s one that I fear is now being squandered for reasons I cannot grasp.
In my personal view, there is now widespread doubt about your motives because of actions like those you’ve undertaken in the past week on this site and elsewhere — which may appear like Mike South vs the world, or as if you’re demanding the lion;s share of the credit. That is a widespread perception, I assure you. I don’t buy it — and I encourage others not to buy it — but only you and your actions will ever drive a stake into the heart of that perception.
I’m writing this as a colleague, Mike, and as someone who is CERTAIN that you and the rest of us can actually do some lasting good — far beyond PWL. But I dot believe your present tone and the tack you have been taking will lead us there.
Is it even conceivable that you and the ragtag anti-PWL rebel army, on the one side, FSC on the other, can reach out and work together instead of being hopelessly and pointlessly at odds? Is there any hope that all the rest of us stuck in the middle can find relief?
If the vision you and your readers share for this site is accurately reflected in the bashing of people who I KNOW are doing their best — and what they think is best — for the adult industry, then you all can have fun cheering each other on. But if you — any or all of you — would like to see us build a bridge so we can focus on the evils about which we all can agree, and agree to disagree on the rest — as you and I have done, Mike — I remain ready to fight at your side. Any damn day of the week.
“DWB
July 26, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@mharris127 – You actually paid for 4 Wicked movies?
That is probably the most bizarre thing in this entire thread.”
Yes, if I want to watch something I buy or (in the past) rent it. I have shelves full of movies, both mainstream and porn (honestly 85 per cent mainstream) that I have bought over the last 30 years as well as a large drawer plus four boxes of CDs and six plus GB of music on my computer that I paid for. My father’s movie collection was even bigger than mine and when my parents moved in with me, more shelves went up along with a very large cabinet filled to the brim. My sister also has a wall in her living room filled with movies on shelves and at least 500 CDs and several GB of music herself that she paid for. We don’t steal things in my family, not even porn. I even try to buy the music I find I like on YouTube (the only questionable thing I do on the computer in my opinion, also many of the songs I want are so old that they are unavailable new from any source and I do not download anything off of YouTube to my computer, just listen).
BTW one of the Wicked movies was actually very well made, a bit campy but the movie itself had very high production qualities.
@Michael – Wow. Do you actually read the shit you write? You are more abusive and insulting than porn wiki leaks.
At least PWL only called me a “pornographic whore.” You on the other hand, a supposed voice for the FSC and unity, have called me:
1) a worthless sorry sack of shit
2) someone who talk out my ass and plays games
3) an anonymous fucking troll
4) a faceless troll
It’s ironic really. You have become (or always were) the very thing you are trying so hard to destroy.
What do I offer? NOTHING. I wasn’t aware I had to offer my services or information to anyone. Missed that memo. I mean, I live in the same city as PWLs alleged main man and could have dinner with him if I wanted to, but I wouldn’t give you so much as his shoe size even if you threatened to have… oh, I dunno… Brittany Andrews mount me with a strap-on. You get jack from me, and I was even listed on PWL.
Please keep up the grandstanding, dick measuring, and childish insults, as it is showing your true colors.
@DWB – Fuck you. You mean nothing to me and you do not affect me one iota. I don’t want or need anything you have, Buck-o. And if you think that little insults were the reason we oppose PWL, then you can add one more to your list:
5) Idiot
Cordially,
MW
Holy shit! Can we get back to the subject at hand now, guys? The enemy is Donny and Co., not DWB. Also, the FSC is not the enemy no matter what Mike and I both personally think about its effectiveness. APHSS is the perfect opportunity to change what many of us think about the FSC, if it is implemented properly you will have the admiration of many in the industry.
@Michael – Oops. Looks like the Brittany Andrews / strap-on comment hit a nerve.
@mharris127 – Everyone is the enemy to angry people like Micheal. You can see it in his long winded comments.
DWB – Nothing you write has any effect on me, let alone a comment about Brittany Andrews of all people. What I took away fron the comment was you’ve been thinking about her wielding a strap-on in your direction so much because you crave a cock up your ass. It’s not my thing but, if it turns you on and gets you off, then have fun.
I don’t think mharris127, or anyone else here, needs your advice on interpreting my comments.
As for me being so angry that everyone, including you, is an enemy, you are once again dead wrong: you’re not relevant enough to hate that much, or to elevate to the level of “enemy.” Here’s another for your list:
6) Inconsequential
@Michael – So then stop replying to me.
For someone who claims I have no effect on them and is “Inconsequential,” you sure do like to write a lot about me. That is odd.
I also find it odd that ONE DAY after you (one of the people who spearheaded the hacking of porn wiki leaks) started in on me with your abusive comments, for the first time EVER in almost 15 years, someone tried to compromise my server. Coincidence?
@DWB, rest assured Michael had nothing to do with hacking any server or breaking any laws…Hes been very adamant that no laws be broken by me or anyone else involved with the fight against PWL..For you to accuse him of having someone try an hack you is out of line..
Thank you, Sean. You and Mike and I are not criminals, and we all resent the accusation.
Now who sounds like Donny Long and PWL?
@DWB – I reply only for the theater of it all — to show every reader what an asshole troll looks like. The best part is, you did all the work for me. Eat shit and LIVE, cocksucker.
@sean aka trpwl – Yes, I believe that no law was broken, nothing was hacked, and PWL simply fell offline multiple times moments after someone tweeted it was about to go offline. That sort of thing happens all the time. In fact, the same thing almost happened to my sites today.
I didn’t accuse him of hacking, I said it was a coincidence, and it is. However, if he says he didn’t do it, then it must be true. People don’t lie. What I do know is, 15 years of having sites without a single issue, then 1 day after being verbally attacked by a man who didn’t break any laws or have anything to do with hacking into PWL, because it wasn’t hacked, my box is attacked. But I’m sure it wasn’t an illegal attack and if they would have succeeded, no laws would have been broken and my sites would have simply just fallen offline.
@Michael – See, you can’t resist.
However, please make up your mind.
Is it:
“I have no more time to waste debating these matters with someone who’s not even on US soil”
Or
“I reply only for the theater of it all — to show every reader what an asshole troll looks like”
Just pick one and stand by it.
@DWB – How about this clarification, you illiterate jerkweed: I will waste no more time actually “debating” you, because you have have nothing of merit to contribute to the discussion, but I do find it entertaining to point out your idiocy for the amusement of Mike’s readers. You are rapidly becoming my favorite amusing oddity. I laugh at you ALL THE TIME.
So, let me get this straight: You post here anonymously, although MIKE knows your identity. I clearly didn’t know who the fuck you are as of yesterday, yet today you imply that I may have had something to do with an alleged hack of your “box.”
If I were Mike South I’d be insulted as a motherfucker at the implication that he violated your confidentiality to let me know who the fuck you are or what/where the fuck your sites and “box” is. WHY DON’T YOU COME RIGHT OUT AND ASK MIKE IF HE BETRAYED YOUR CONFIDENCE AND ANONYMITY, YOU COWARDLY PIECE OF SHIT?
Uh-oh, I guess that makes 7. In any case, here’s another for you:
8) Jester
I invite you to continue; I have more.
@Michael – Amazing. You are simply unable to stop replying to me. But please keep the insults coming, even as expected as they are, it is entertaining to see someone associated with the FSC act like a schoolyard bully. It helps the cause. A few more good insults and you can start your very own PWLv2.com. Just don’t call me a kike, I’m very touchy about that.
Why would Mike violate my confidence and anonymity? My identity is not a secret. It was even plastered on PWL for a while before it was kindly removed per my request.
It is indeed one hell of a coincidence about the hack attempt. And while I am happy that I have not known of you longer than a day, the hack attempt came after I said I talk to someone at PWL, and then you busted a gasket over it demanding that I tell you what I know. Shortly after, it began. Amazing timing. Really. And I’m supposed to believe a guy who was part of Donny’s emails being accessed (legally of course) and his site repeatedly taken offline (also legal)? Your involvement with PWL doesn’t exactly sit you on the trustworthy bench. But hey, hacks happen. They’ve just never happened to me before, until I met you.
And yes, I am a cowardly piece of shit, but it wasn’t easy to get that way. It’s something I had to work hard at over the course of a decade, shooting porn in third world and often dangerous countries. You know, all the places most of the tough guys in porn valley won’t shoot in. But the downside is, it’s made me an anonymous cowardly jester who gets laughed at by a guy who dates a transsexual. It’s a hard knock life, what can I say?
@Michael – You are full of way too much negative energy for me. I concede.
I’m going to take the high road and logout. You can have the last word, I know you will take it anyway. But the truth of the matter is, I’m not interested in being pulled into your black hole of negativity and insults. That’s just not how I roll.
And please leave my server alone.
Regards,
DWB