(With my comments in parenthesis)
“What Is The PASS Protocol For Gay Industry Talent”
During the show on NPR yesterday the guy from AHF said that one of the HIV positive guys in this latest incident did test at a PASS facility. Dianne Duke said he didnt. ( well thats what she said day fore yesterday but in the press releases back in October Diane Duke said that the Talent pool was tested and that there had been no further exposure, we now know that to be another lie. IIRC she also praised the PASS system for not letting an on set exposure happen…ooops….) Regardless if he did or didn’t it brings up the question, what is the PASS protocol for the gay industry? Does anyone know? APAC, do you know? Do performers know?
Here’s the problem for the FSC. Too many performers are not using the PASS system, and the vast majority of the gay industry doesn’t use it. With all the crossovers these days that leaves a huge gaping hole in this safety net. But what if this unfortunate guy did go to a PASS facility? ( He actually DID) Why was there no moratorium, no quarantine list in September or October when he tested?( There was a 3 day shutdown as I recall) Is it PASS protocol to not do a gay industry quarantine,to not call for a moratorium when a gay actor turns up positive? (actually it is)
Dianes self serving statement that they didn’t use PASS is reason enough to conclude that the system isn’t working. During yesterdays show nobody mentioned that the general rule is, the gay industry does not participate in PASS, and left the impression that these guys were outside of the industry protocol, when in fact there is no protocol for testing in the gay industry. This recent case is proof of exactly what Diane has been saying “between the lines,” we don’t include the gay industry in our protocols or in our statement about no on set transmission. Basically, the gay side doesn’t count, even when they use a PASS facility.
Does the FSC, which claims to be the industry watchdog, represent the gay industry, and if gay industry talent test at a PASS facility are there separate protocols if someone tests positive? Only time will tell if this person did or did not test through PASS because one thing is absolutely certain, Diane or the guy from AHF ..one is either mistaken or lying. (lying and we know which one) And just exactly how does Diane know who tested how? , that all the results of the exposed partners were negative if they weren’t using PASS? Who gave them this private, HIPPA protected information. How do they know what kind of test was used, who gives them this information?
Testing is not a shield that protects you, it is a safety net that catches you after something bad has happened. Testing did not PREVENT any of the exposed people from contracting the disease. Testing did not prevent this one guy from passing it to the other.
32 Responses
About That NPR Thing – Reader Mail http://t.co/aNkOvlyWW8
I posted the NPR interview on here yesterday.
http://knprnews.org/post/should-nevada-require-adult-film-actors-use-condoms
“What is the PASS protocol for the gay industry.”
Well asking APAC anything is a moot point because they are a bullshit organization run by FSC. So if someone were to actually respond ..they would just repeat whatever Duke/ FSC tells them to.
Do the performers know?
Most don’t even seem to realize that APAC is a bullshit organization let alone know much else including the PASS protocols. In my opinion, I don’t think they give a shit one way or the other.
The heads of the industry lie? Really? No kidding. That is all they know how to do.
It’s pretty obvious that FSC only represents the “straight” side ( if that’s what you want to call it since most of the guys also shoot on the “Gay side) of the industry.
Finally, You can ask all the questions you want but you will never get an honest response from someone who is currently working in the industry… Unless they cowardly post anonymously.
* most of the *straight* guys also shoot on the gay side of the industry or are gay in their personal lives.
The entire whole of the sex industry needs testing guidelines and access to low cost testing facilities in every state.
And a national support network.
And just who do ya think is arranging and providing treatment for these guys now? Here’s a hint, it aint the FSC, it aint PASS, and it aint APAC. Perhaps ist public enemy number one to the rescue, again.
RT @MikeSouth1226: About That NPR Thing – Reader Mail http://t.co/aNkOvlyWW8
RT @MikeSouth1226: About That NPR Thing – Reader Mail:
(With my comments in parenthesis)
“What Is The PASS Protocol For Gay Ind… http…
You know whats really funny? going back and reading all those articles quoting Dianne Duke, and Achworthless, Randazza(lol), and the usual dupes, Deen, Kross etc. about how Vegas, and Nevada are courting the industry, and we’re all going to Vegas where we can film without condoms etc etc. Reread those articles, then at the very end add the word BULLSHIT, in big letters. LMAO Cant wait to hear the next one, Phoenix, Scottsdale, here we come. LOL
They say unifying the sex industry is impossible, bullshit, I’m going to do it.
@jilted
Have read and reread those articles and LMAO at the audacity while cringing for performers each time. My favorite was Jeffrey Douglas in the LA Times shouting from rooftops for performers to exercise their right to not cooperate with the health departments partner notification process while telling them to let AIM violate the hell out their privacy just weeks before the full PWL Leak….check it out February 2011.
@Jennifer
You may unify a few, but don’t expect them to adhere to it and what solution do you propose to producers hiring non-union workers? Without legislation forcing people into the union it won’t work because it will most-likely be cheaper to operate outside of the non-mandatory union. In the end it would just be another FSC with no power to actually do something. However, you may be able to pocket a nice salary while you act like a difference is being made.
“Testing is not a shield that protects you, it is a safety net that catches you after something bad has happened”
Testing is also a shield that helps to protect others from falling debris, sort of like covered walkways around a construction site. Done right, testing would be remarkably effective, but it would require that all of the people involved are honest about their off set sexual encounters, and most are not. So testing every 14 days isn’t effective if the girl (or guy) involved gets tested, then goes escorting for cash or fucks some random person they pick up at a bar or party, and then does a scene. The moment they have that outside encounter, their test is negated and useless. Most people don’t seem to understand this, and just say “well, umm, I was tested”.
Oh, and “exclusive” sex with your life partner doesn’t help if they are screwing around on the side – you never know.
@rawalex
As you’re still sharing your wish to regulate performers personal aka private sexual lives for the convenience and profit of adult film stakeholders ..I’m still pointing out that your approach is bass-ackwards per the US Constitution and its amendments.
Go for it…ring up Rob Black to see if he’ll tell you the pit falls he found beyond lack of popularity. I’m seriously encouraging you not mocking you because I think if Rob Black shares some of the regulatory red tape he encountered it will help you avoid it …also think someone motivated can create a true performer advocacy group as an alternative to the FSC farce APAC has shown itself to be.
Not at all. I am not trying to regulate their sex lives – I am just pointing out that if they are not honest about what they do outside of “work” then a testing system in work is not really going to give the desired results. There are just too many outside contacts being made.
It’s not about convenience for anyone. If you choose to make a living with your body, then what you do with on your off hours is part of the deal. You cannot show up with a 12 day old test and claim to be clean if you had unprotected sex with people in the middle. It’s a question of honest, not convenience.
Jennifer Ruby is an example of someone in the industry who SHOULD be posting anonymously.
Or should I say, “associated” with the industry, because I never heard of her until I saw her comment on here… So I googled her. it says she is a FORMER porn performer but she is acting like she is still working in the industry..so .who knows.. Most come back… Meh… I don’t care enough to research.. But I definitely stand by my statement.. This is one person who SHOULD be posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Lol!
how soon we forget she was actually quite popular and an a list girl by most accounts…dont pick on someone using an approximation of a real name here…while I appreciate her desire to unite performers in an honst manner unconnected to the FSC or anyone else I also know how many times it has been tried and failed.
@rawalex,
Your desciption of the industr system is pretty accurate. They are trying to use a net to catch fallig debris, and everyone standing under that net is in danger. Nets have huge holes.
And why is that test only rendered useless when the partner is a civilian. It is a fact that every single day performers with stds passthose std’s to other performers. STD’s are in the pool of performers right now, no need for any civilians to introduce them into the pool, they are already there, being spread among working performers.
And Alex, people cheating the system is PART of the industry system. It is a harm reduction program,,,,that means you accept that the system participants are not doing the right thing, education has failed, and people are not honest,,,that is why the industry has to go to the last resort of a harm reduction program. That is why it is a net, and not a shield. And it only takes one to cheat and be dishonest as we all know, and the fact is alot more than just one are disnonest and cheaters.
@jennifer…I applaud your desire to organize workers, I am wondering where your funding is going to come from.
Mike is pretty correct here,. And one main reason most of these efforts have failed is MONEY. It takes MONEY to do things like this and very few are willing to part with any to make something like this happen, let alone put in the actual number of hours of real work to make it happen. So I put to Jennifer, do you have a fund raising plan and what are the first steps you are going to, or have already taken?
I have to agree that testing is not perfect but it is the only real solution we have although only a partial one. Condoms don’t work for performer-standard sex and cause other issues. Performers in general also aren’t going to make their civilian partner test, especially if that performer thinks his/her partner does not have sex with anyone other than him/her.
Unfortunately we are just going to have to accept that VD is the price performers and their partners pay for being in the industry. There is going to be the occasional HIV transmission and outside of banning the filming of porn (in theory, anyway — not so much in practice as with a ban porn would just go underground like it did in the 70’s and 80’s) there isn’t a fucking thing we can do about it. However, one improvement we could make to reduce the chances of HIV and other VD transmission is to legally require performer testing for both the straight and gay “sides” of the industry and another is to require sero-sorting where HIV positive performers are only allowed to perform with other positive performers and HIV negative performers with other negative performers. Sero-sorting comes in because of Treasure Island Media (mainly a gay company) currently allowing mixed serotype scenes where HIV positive performers are literally fucking HIV negative performers up the ass with their HIV infected dicks. There is 95% of your on-set transmission issue right there and that is with only one company allowing such scenes, I am also actually curious as to if TIM was the company involved in the VD Alert sent by the California Dept. of Occupational Health recently although they claim the “Patient Zero” had tested and was caught because he tested again on a routine schedule.
“then goes escorting for cash, or fucks some random person,,,,OR PERFORMS IN A SCENE WITH AN ALREADY INFECTED PERFORMER, and then goes to work tomorrow and spreads that infection to another performer, who then works the next day and spreads it to another performer, who works the next day and spreads it to another performer, who works the next day and spreads it to another performer,,,,ALL without ever having sex with a civilian.
@rawalex
How is honesty going to make a difference? You have people so desperate for a meal, roof, new pair of shoes not to mention those who claim to be so horny they have to get off…they’re all willing to fuck the person bragging about the 40+ people fuck party they went to last night or three days ago.
How about the people who show up Friday with Thursdays results from Wednesday morning test taken just hours after a no holds barred fuck party…a man might know about the CT his test didn’t catch but a woman more likely won’t …none know about Syphillis and none know about HIV either…so how does honesty help here? They aren’t hiding it half the set is bragging about it and choreographing activities to bring back the thrill of the recent party.
How many performers feel obligated to attend these parties aka impromptu casting calls and how many bring friends they are trying to help?
So let’s be honest…who’s footing the bill for these parties…who’s taking a cut of the ‘off-set’ sex we won’t call escorting they book for the performer?
How about the agent or producer with a casting couch who films one of ten he auditions sending the other nine on their merry way to the next casting couch till they get a break aka call to agent for a roof in a model house and test to make sure other performers will work with new talent…yep..let’s talk about honest…cuz it’s the next test that picks up all the ppl performer didn’t knowing fuck on the casting couch.
I’m all for honesty but it doesn’t do jack shit if you’re not facing reality too.
This is way past the all or nothing bullshit arguments mharris is regurgitating.
In a few weeks OSHA is going to open public comment for their latest draft changes to the current 5193 BBP policies. Over the past 18 months I’ve listened to both sides of the argument and find both leave much to be desired when it comes to performer safety….that is why for over a year now I’ve been encouraging independent producers and performer stakeholders to step up and open their mouths to work towards a flexible solution.
FSC represents stakeholders who want testing but refuse to pay for it…AHF limited their narrative to HIV. From day one I came into this respecting the right to produce and perform in adult films without regard to the content and heard many easily solved valid issues being tossed aside as ancillary to the movers and shakers agendas.
Secondly I came into this believing HIV needs to be de-stigmatized as ‘THE sexual activity risk’ I don’t want untrained police officers and probation officers testing sex workers with ora-quick as they tack on felony charges ignoring that persons plea for the meds that have kept their HIV undetectable …while they give a desk ticket to the unknown acutely infected sexworker who now needs to work overtime or feels compelled to take an extra fifty to ditch a condom to meet their daily cash needs.
Time to face it….working out effective on-set prevention protocols is the way to decriminalize all sex work yet the majority of sex-work stakeholders remain stuck in toddler tantrum mode saying it ain’t so.
@common sense
Yet again you ANONYMOUSLY troll vs respect someone in a position to do more than you can. As a former performer she can relate to current performers with a united goal of performer safety…she can be much more effective than you’d ever hope to be. Unfortunately you’re the least of hostile disrespect she can expect to encounter in an endeavor like this.
For the record…you’re an ANONYMOUS TROLLING asshole so fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
wow… well thumb up to lurkingreader…these comments really show how women are constantly asked to prove their competence in this industry, it’s really sad how even within it men act like these women can’t accomplish anything on their own or the industry they work in…sheesh..good luck jennifer
@ Lurking spin…LOL! yet again you show that you are either dumb or can’t read. as I stated numerous times I AM NOT IN THE INDUSTRY. people NOT associated with the industry SHOULD post anonymously for obvious reasons… you understand that right??? never mind.
BUT, ALL the people associated with this industry, except Jennifer, SHOULD NOT be posting anonymously… it’s WEIRD AND SPEAKS VOLUMES! . obviously the ONLY reason they do is because they are cowards and/or they know they are full of shit / and or/ they want to harass someone who doesn’t spew their bullshit agenda and don’t want to be identified! K?
Oh god not the I am a troll AGAIN! LOL!! you are laughable and you have been attacking me from day 1 .. but if you had any brains you would have figured out by now that you can call me whatever the hell you want,.. It doesn’t bother me/ I could care less. 😉 your schtick is getting soooooo old.
Every time I disagree with you or anything mike posts or I just say something you don’t like you attack me and my character.. like I said before…attack away!!! LOL! my feelings aren’t hurt! I AM TOUGH. I dish it out and I CAN TAKE IT..
oh,and the only reason I even responded is to point out to the maybe 3 readers who haven’t figured out your act yet how laughably, obvious you are.. lol!
ps..who the hell are you to tell me how to think or what I can say.. I can’t have my own opinion? Seriously? You say you are not associated with this industry. in any way. you are some house wife or grand mom or whatever and yet you know it all you are some kind of expert. on it.. LOL! Hilarious! I couldn’t make this shit up! so according to your own delusional mind you are never wrong and the world’s number 1 expert on all issues! LOL #onlyinporn
Lady you take this blog WAY to seriously!
@ spin…pps.. you are talking about respecting people? LOL! does the hilarity never end with you!?!?!
@harris:
Hi Matt. Who’s “we?”
@common sense
Thank you in advance for the wine I’ll be earning as my gaybors salivate over the OSU-OSU game….
“@ Lurking spin…LOL!” at the risk of making an ass out of you I’ll assume you mean me and remind you that we already had the discussion where you wanted me to not speak till spoken till…obviously I don’t take orders from you.
” yet again you show that you are either dumb or can’t read.”
Actually the opposite as I’m very proficient at reading, comprehension and speaking …ENT also said my hearing is fine 😉
“as I stated numerous times I AM NOT IN THE INDUSTRY.”
What does that have to do with the price of tea in china or the fact that you choose to troll even citing several industry blogs….So what’s your agenda beyond trolling and showing yourself to be a total asshole?
“people NOT associated with the industry SHOULD post anonymously for obvious reasons… you understand that right??? never mind.”
Lol…if not for folks like you and uncle peg I’d add a last name to my first “Dot” and have no fear of meeting industry folks face to face to discuss policy…there are even some who have argued with me on this blog who’d be interested in my opinion about approaching OSHA, decriminalizing sex-work and HIV …can you say the same?
“BUT, ALL the people associated with this industry, except Jennifer, SHOULD NOT be posting anonymously… ”
Who made you judge of what other people SHOULD be doing? Since when does revealing their body on film remove the right of anonymously posting on big sites…your overinflated sense of self is showing again.
“it’s WEIRD AND SPEAKS VOLUMES!”
Are you hearing strange voices again…meh maybe it’s your guardian angel.
“obviously the ONLY reason they do is because they are cowards and/or they know they are full of shit / and or/ they want to harass someone who doesn’t spew their bullshit agenda and don’t want to be identified! K?”
Wow….thanks for this glimpse inside your motives…keep your neat and tidy, coward blah blah blah in mind as you read forward.
“Oh god not the I am a troll” yes you are an here’s a definition ‘one who posts a deliberately provocative message with the intention of causing the maximum disruption and argument’ in my book that makes you an ASSHOLE…so fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
“AGAIN! LOL!!” Still laughing cuz I done it again too.
“you are laughable” glad to amuse generally I’m a dry facts kinda girl.
“and you have been attacking me from day 1”
Lmao…our first interactions concerned your desire to shut down KINK.com as a solution to rescue women who may not want to be rescued…pointing out that I have years of experience proving that’s a bass-ackwards idea and less effective as a pound of cure vs an ounce of prevention.
“.. but if you had any brains” oh please….between the coward and brains I’m thinking you need a dose of Wizard of Oz …if you’re lucky he might even give you a heart someone could love.
“you would have figured out by now that you can call me whatever the hell you want,.. It doesn’t bother me/ I could care less. your schtick is getting soooooo old.”
Thank you for your less than enlightened opinion.
“Every time I disagree with you or anything mike posts or I just say something you don’t like you attack me and my character..”
Oh you mean like calling you out for your trolling comments intended to hijack the thread…or pointing out the fact that prevention is more effective than cure?
” like I said before…attack away!!!”
NOT interested in your permission to call out your trolling or my opinion that this makes you an ASSHOLE in my book…thanks anyway 🙂
“LOL! my feelings aren’t hurt! I AM TOUGH. I dish it out and I CAN TAKE IT..”
ROFLMAO….so says you.
“oh,and the only reason I even responded is to point out to the maybe 3 readers who haven’t figured out your act yet how laughably, obvious you are.. lol!”
Why thank you great and powerful OZ…don’t care.
“ps..who the hell are you to tell me how to think or what I can say..”
And…..we’ve come full circle to your initial trolling comments…put up or shut up…show me where I tell you how to think or what to say? BTW pointing you out as a trolling ASSHOLE does neither.
” I can’t have my own opinion? Seriously?”
If you’re asking me an anonymous internet commenter for permission…opine away! Perhaps it would be helpful to know this doesn’t exclude other people from having an opinion about what you say…nor does it stop them or you from making that opinion known.
“You say you are not associated with this industry. in any way.”
Since 1979 I’ve had no direct or familial association with the industry.
“you are some house wife or grand mom or whatever” I have been a SAHW/M since 1989 which has given me many hours to study, analyze, critique and effectively create policy for Non-profits and government application….what’s your claim beyond not being associated with the industry?
“and yet you know it all you are some kind of expert. on it.. ”
Never claimed to be an expert, but I’m smart enough to not ignore those with expertise and experience beyond my own on any matter.
” LOL! Hilarious!” Glad to see you’re amused
” I couldn’t make this shit up!” Then why do you persist in trying to do so?
“so according to your own delusional mind you are never wrong”
Not when it comes to my experience…which includes many instances where I’ve learned the errors of my ways.
“and the world’s number 1 expert on all issues!”
Never claimed expert status on any issues though I do have a wall of framed stuff…even has a framed T-shirt …and lots of tchotchkes and baubles from people who appreciate what escapes you…meh never tried and never hope to be all things to all people.
“LOL #onlyinporn”
How would you know? Your not int the industry right?
“Lady you take this blog WAY to seriously!”
Not half as seriously as the Policy that brings me here or the nachos everyone will be eating at halftime.
@mharris
“Unfortunately we are just going to have to accept that VD is the price performers and their partners pay for being in the industry”
OTH Salmonella is a risk of eating poultry …listeria is a risk of eating cold cuts and mercury is a risk of eating certain fish…none is a price! Which is why I take policy so seriously and spend time on this blog.
Recently the Labor Board approved SEIU effort to unionize fast Food franchises without consideration for what this will do to brand standards and quality control to every restaurant chain…even Morton’s, Ruth Chris and PF Chang type establishments or the food safety issues they will create ‘protecting jobs’ of food workers who spit in food like they protect jobs of rogue violent cops.
Porn (rightfully so) rejects the BBP policies created for medical applications. A set need not be sterile but it does need EFFECTIVE standards as a GUIDELINE so STI aren’t the price of earning a living. This is the same as my kitchen need not meet commercial safety and sanitizing standards to effectively handle risky foods in a safe manner reducing the risk of known hazards so they aren’t a price of ingesting food.
PS I doubt TIM was involved in September events…they don’t require testing as they adhere to the FSC protocol exempting gay production.