I made a twitter post last Friday asking APAC where they stood on the 4 (now 5) performers filing a complaint against LA Direct and Derek Hay, seeing that APAC benefactor Karen Tynan is the attorney for LA Direct. Of course APAC didn’t respond but Charlotte Cross did. Her response was defending Karen Tynan and saying I didnt know what I was talking about and that Karen wasn’t LA Direct attorney. She also stated that Tynan had “helped her many times”
I’m sure Alan Gelbard had kittens when he read it and quickly told Charlotte to STFU, and she did she also deleted the tweets, but not before I got a copy.
You see if Karen Tynan has indeed helped Charlotte Cross, even once, then Tynan must recuse herself or face ethics charges.
In all honesty all I was pushing for was for APAC to tell me again how they are not the puppet of the FSC, even though we all know that they are.
I can say this, it has been years since I had a performer complain to me about LA Direct and given the unnecessary hostile reaction of Ms Cross, I suspect that at the very least on her part its all just attention whoring. Its more likely to me that Charlotte is the problem, I dont know the other girls and I will leave it to the Labor board to determine and report accordingly. Yes you read that right this is a complaint to the agency that licenses agencies and will be a hearing under their jurisdiction, it is not at this point a court case.
In the era of the #metoo (why did they choose to call it pound me too anyway) it’ll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
21 Responses
Charlotte Cross is her own worst enemy, always has been. She blames LA Direct for forcing her into prostitution yet anyone who knows her knows she was hooking for years prior 2 ever even meeting Derek Hay.
I can’t speak to what actually happened but the accusations are (as I understand them) that Derek Hay was raping his clients. I found that hard to believe but if that is actually the case (and media reports aren’t misinterpreting the official documents) why in the hell is it not in a criminal court? Four performers are on the labor agency charges as plaintiffs, why didn’t one of them know to call the police and not the labor board? I have to hold off on judgment here but something isn’t right — either media reports are wildly incorrect or the plaintiffs are trying to rake Derek over the coals for some quick settlement money. Does anyone have the official public documents to date to post here?
I agree. If the dude was really raping those girls wouldn’t one of them, any of them, would have gone 2 the poo poo by now and filed a report and started an official criminal investigation. That’s what happens when you raped. You go 2 to the police and report it. You don’t use such a serious crime as a side note in civil litigation 2 try and get out of a contract. If you raped you feel violated. You are traumatized. You go to the police and try and get help.
Justice, the rape accusations in media reports makes me wonder whether whatever plaintiff reported this to them made the accusations to the media and they actually didn’t make the accusation in the paperwork they filed with the labor board. It would seem that labor officials would have been required to contact the police themselves as part of their investigation if rape is one of the accusations made by Charlotte Cross and Co.
It’s hard to take anything Cross says serious, especially when she’s telling people she went to Harvard and she has all these degrees. She’s lied about so much shit. I mean seriously how many roommates has this girl gone through? Has to be a reason she cycles through so many of them.
Harvard officials wouldn’t appreciate Charlotte dragging their name into porn — even if she actually attended university there. I will leave proving whether or not she went to Harvard to others although the rape accusations she and three of her friends have made against Derek Hay make me wonder if she and (evidently) her friends in the Peruvian Nose Candy Crew or the Shoot Heroin In Their Pussy Lips Club even have enough intelligence to suck dick on Hollywood Blvd and actually get the dick in their mouths (nothing wrong with sucking dick for money if you are smart about it but the concept is so simple that any adult chick should get it)! Getting through graduate school is not easy, if she actually made it through Harvard with multiple degrees she should be more intelligent than she showed with her latest stunt — knowing that rapes are reported to the police, not the CA Labor Board (or whatever the fuck that agency’s name is). She could have a fucking doctorate for all I fucking care, they don’t teach graduate students not to cry rape there anyway — people are supposed to have learned that in kindergarten! I guess it is theoretically possible that Derek really did rape them, I tried to hold my judgement here but things just aren’t adding up for Charlotte and the Peruvian Nose Candy crew with this one!
As for the forced prostitution charges, it is reported that Derek does have part ownership in an escort agency but they have nothing to do with his adult film talent agency. If a performer insists on escorting he might refer them there so they work (relatively) safely rather than have them sucking dick on Hollywood Blvd for $50 a blow and not having any control over whose dick they suck (because of VD and kidnapping concerns) but if he was forcing his clients to work for that escort agency it would have came out years ago. He and his partner have plenty of prostitutes for their escort agency, they don’t need to push porn performers into the mix there and Derek’s porn performer clients escorting for them actually makes it more risky for them legally and puts the legal talent agency licenses and the business itself in the crosshairs of police and FBI investigations — which makes cross-pollinating the talent and escort agencies more trouble than it is worth. If nothing else at least Derek Hay is reported to be more ethical than Trinity St. Whore or Shy “Fake Jew” Love about running their agencies (both talent and escort).
Porn stars want 1500-2500 an hour, they aren’t doing $50 bjobs on Hollywood blvd.
Just read through entire complaint which AVN was kind enough to post, hopefully they will post Derek Hay Response. This isn’t the first Allan Gelbard and Derek Hay skirmish and some may recall their publicized dust up five years ago over the Starr Sisters wanting to void their contracts. Putting aside the apparent grudge match I read complaint with an eye to industry norms that can’t be resolved with any kind of First Amendment arguments. Two issues stood out as potentially explosive game changers …the fiscal (fiduciary) role agents perform and consent.
“42. Respondents have failed to file a complete list of fees charged with the Labor Commission. Said non-filed fees include, but are not limited to, Agency fees, driver fees, “model house” fees, transportation booking fees, “kill” fees and “Short Notice Job Cancellation” fees.”
That fiduciary role could be a problem for the industry as a whole with easibly obtained and verified Agency statements deducting these fees before passing on performer earnings.
“72. “No talent agency may refer an artist to any person, firm, or corporation in which the talent agency has a direct or indirect financial interest for other services to be rendered to the artist ….” CA Labor Code, § 1700.40 ”
No part of the agreement included in the comlaint authorizes the agent to act as fiscal manager. There are no disclosures regarding acency role as an collection/payment agent to landlord, drivers etc.
Reading the next sections of the complaint I couldn’t help but wonder how California ‘yes means yes’ law will affect this. No doubt SB967 appies to educational facilities yet the nationwide publicity through the legislative process shed light on consent in new ways. The #MeToo movement has absolutely obliterated former lines in the sand regarding force and cooercion.
63. Out of respect for each performers’ personal choices as to which other performers they chose to perform with, it is a custom and practice in the adult industry for performers to create lists to advise their agents of their personal choices so that they can be hired by producers to perform constantly therewith. a) A “Yes List” would contain the names of performers with whom a performer would agree to perform. b) Conversely, a “No List” would contain the names of performers with whom a performer chooses not to perform. c) Additionally, performers decide what types of “Scenes”8 they are comfortable performing on camera. (By way of example, a female performer may chose only to perform with other women, or only with a single male, or in group encounter situations.)
64. It is an industry custom and practice to scrumptiously respect each performers’ personal decisions as to their specified performance criteria. Moreover, refusing to respect a performers wishes could constitute a consent violation,9 or in more egregious cases, criminal sexual assault.
9 “A consent violation happens when someone chooses to ignore or cross someone’s [sexual] boundaries. People do that for a lot of reasons….” Make Sex Easy, Charlie Glickman, PhD. http://www.makesexeasy.com/consent-accidents-consent-violations/
People with comments characterizing consent allegations in the complaint as rape and suggesting that it’s a police/criminal matter might be interested in this nugget….their contract says “If any controversy arises between the parties, including one as to liabilty for the payment of fees, the parties involved shall refer the matter in dispute to the Labor Commisioner for a hearing and dertermination…”
The complaint preamble indicates this complaint is just the tip of the iceberg. They want to Labor Commisioner to find facts they can later use in other ( civil and/or crimal) forums.
“Most egregiously, he coerces some of his performers into “escorting” and then, should they seek to terminate their (illegal) contracts, threatens to “out” them for performing illegal sex-work. As alleged herein, and as shall be demonstrated at the hearing on this matter, he has violated not less than five sections of the California Talent Agencies Act, as well as numerous other state and federal statutes, some of which being beyond the scope of this Commission’s jurisdiction. Petitioners hereby reserve these claims for subsequent litigation.”
Then the complaint doubles down on the criminal aspects doing a CYA in case this or other courts say the the Petitioners were willing prostitutes.
Petitioners remain anonymous because “d) each Petitioner may be compelled to admit potentially illegal conduct, thereby risking criminal prosecution.”
Either way if this goes against Derek Hay it affects the entire industry. If the defense says they were willing prostitutes and performers have Agency statements with agency fees deducted or income earned from ‘escorting’ it opens a massive can of worms and brings it right back to the agent having an interest in the escort agency that booked them.
“72. “No talent agency may refer an artist to any person, firm, or corporation in which the talent agency has a direct or indirect financial interest for other services to be rendered to the artist ….” CA Labor Code, § 1700.40 “
Just because someone files a rape charge does NOT mean the police investigate it or the DA files charges. In fact, most of the time the police do nothing. So those who made these claims may have filed charges & nothing happened.
Stop pretending like if a victim goes to the police that justice will be served. Only 1 out of 1000 rapist ever see a jail cell. There are hundred of thousands of rape kits all across America for over a decade that never even get tested.
How misogynist to claim all females are lying about rape because no got arrested for it.
Karma, I agree in principle. However, most of these girls don’t really know where to go to get escort “representation”. Without someone like Derek they would be doing $50 blow jobs and $300 suck and fucks in seedy hotel rooms near Hollywood Blvd (or $35 blow and gos in the back of Trinity St. Clair’s Bentley at the new version of PSK).
Lurk, I am going to the AVN site to get those documents right now. They should be interesting.
@matthewharris
Even the socially inept virgins at ayedeetee are goofing on the stupidity of your $35 blowjob comments.
I skimmed the AVN copies of this complaint, the rape (by coercion) charge is definitely on it along with a laundry list of civil violations. If the rape charge is proven true, Derek is in a heap of trouble. The rest of the charges appear to be civil in nature and although DIR could fine the fuck out of Derek and yank his CA talent agency license he likely wouldn’t be out of business altogether as he also is licensed and has an office in Nevada. I suspect the rape charges are fabricated, he might not have followed the contract approval and maximum fee structure regulations but Derek doesn’t come across as a rapist to me and he has been a talent agent for at least 15 years. If he were a rapist it would have came out a long time ago. What a fucking mess Charlotte, the rest of the Peruvian Nose Candy (or whatever drug these chicks and their attorney were taking together when they wrote the rape accusation on the DIR complaint) crew and probably Derek himself have dug a hole so large and so deep it is going to take a jumbo jet to fly out of it — but I don’t expect the rape charges to go anywhere other than maybe a libel/slander lawsuit by Derek against the Peruvian Nose Candy crew.
@mharris
There is no ‘rape’ charge filed to be proven true.
You’re so fixated on ‘rape’ you’re missing the big picture….Allan Gelbard is using the Labor Commission the same way OSHA was used to find facts for use in civil suits against KINK.
The LC (Labor Commissioner) process can do a lot more damage than awarding Plaintiffs moneys owed, impose fines and yank Agency licenses…
they find facts that can be appealed by either side and moved onto the civil/criminal process as established fact with a higher burden to dispute. This complaint is written to try and establish facts related to human trafficking …a much bigger concern than your fictional rape charges.
“This Petition concerns an talent agent in the adult entertainment industry who has exploited his position of power to abuse his clients both emotionally, financially and sexually.”
“Most egregiously, he coerces some of his performers into “escorting” and then, should they seek to terminate their (illegal) contracts, threatens to “out” them for performing illegal sex-work. As alleged herein, and as shall be demonstrated at the hearing on this matter, he has violated not less than five sections of the California Talent Agencies Act, as well as numerous other state and federal statutes, some of which being beyond the scope of this Commission’s jurisdiction. Petitioners hereby reserve these claims for subsequent litigation.”
Times have changed since 2010 when AHF went after nine agencies for health & safety found on page 10 of this complaint.
“37. No talent agency shall send or cause to be sent, any artist to any place where the health, safety, or welfare of the artist could be adversely affected, the character of which place the talent agency could have ascertained upon reasonable inquiry. CA Labor Code, § 1700.33”
What was once the primary focus of a complaint against nine agencies is now fourth of twelve causes of action against a specific Agency. Derek Hay is the name on this complaint but it isn’t about him or the unnamed plaintiffs; it’s about keeping it simple going after one agency.
Consider it legal bowling …this complaint is the ball aiming for the 1 pin looking for the strike….this is an ongoing game with the potential to affect the entire industry and it will drag on for years with many venues hosting the various playoffs before a winner is declared.
Hop, there are articles making the claim that Ms. St. Clair was blowing people in her car for $35 each right here on Mike South. It has been a few years but it was reported here (not by me). I also stand by my assertion that without someone to guide and book adult performers that also hook on the side they wouldn’t be getting $1500 an hour, they would be lucky to get $50 for a blow job or $300 for a suck and fuck standing on Hollywood and Vine. They would also get busted and taken to jail in handcuffs much more often on prostitution charges. I personally think prostitution should be legal with some regulation but it isn’t, these girls need to make a living and an “escort” service such as the one Derek part owns is the lesser of two evils when it comes to arrest risk.
Also, maybe you need to get laid more often, Hop. Your vitriol toward me shows that you probably haven’t had any since the Carter Administration. Aaliyah Love, Elena Koshka, Lena Paul and Shae Celestine are cute as hell, book yourself in a scene with one of them and get laid for once! If you are into big tits Angela White and Alex Chance have nice, natural GGG tits — book them, cast yourself as male talent and suck on some titty while fucking their pussies! Even better yet, cast yourself as a submissive in a scene with Mona Wales or Maitresse Madeline and let her do as she may. We all need to have some fun from time to time. Enjoy that AAA rated pussy (or in the case of Madeline her overly tatted, FFF rated pussy — her tattoo artist needs to be tarred, feathered and run out of the US)! 🙂
Lurk I think you nailed it if the ruling goes for gelbard the civil suit comes next..sorry i missed yer calls…will catch up tomorrow (Sun) love you long time
I still say sex by coercion like what is stated in the complaint is rape but definitions differ, Lurk. I do think a civil suit is in the wings here if Derek doesn’t settle with a large sum of cash, though. This is a shakedown, pure and simple. Unfortunately the cheapest thing for Derek to do is settle but that will make him a target for future shakedowns via the DIR. A man doesn’t represent talent for 16-18 years without raping them then start doing just that. People are wired to be serial rapists (which is essentially one of the accusations) from birth, it is a genetic flaw and a rapist can’t be cured. As for the charge of (essentially) pimping, it actually causes more problems than it is worth to refer adult film talent to an escort agency that he also part owns just for the reasons Lurk discusses in her comments. Derek was probably doing it to protect his talent from multiple arrests, rapes (yes, an escort can be raped), assaults and to get them more money for their escorting/prostitution gigs. Through his escort agency they can get $1500 an hour. The only other option available to them is self-booking which might get them $300 an hour and place them at higher risk of arrest in a sting operation as they can’t weed out possible pigs like a professional escort agency can. I think Derek was more protecting his talent (which is likely to go escort on Hollywood Blvd. if he doesn’t create and get them into a professional escort agency) than creating another revenue stream with that agency.
Derek got served with papers at Exxxotica in Miami.
@Mharris
Allan Gelbard is not a shakedown atty. He is on record trying to legalize prostitution.
https://esplerp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Brief-of-Amici-Curiae-First-Amendment-Lawyers-Assn-Woodhull-Freedom-Foundation.pdf
This isn’t something Derek Hay can make go away by paying off the plaintiffs. Even if he knows who they all are any settlement offers have to go through their attorney who has no doubt explained that this is not a quick process and could take ten years or more before it reaches a conclusion.
Said it before …saying it again
” Derek Hay is the name on this complaint but it isn’t about him or the unnamed plaintiffs; it’s about keeping it simple going after one agency. ”
This is about changing the way the industry operates and the laws in place that facilitate exploitation of legitimate workers.
That attorney is also required to inform them of any settlement offer by Derek or his insurer (he almost definitely has insurance against such a lawsuit and insurance company practice is to try and settle for “nuisance value”, at least in Michigan usually $80K-$100K as it costs more than that to fight a case). If he does not, he risks his bar card/law practice license. It is the defendant’s option whether to accept the offer, tell her attorney to negotiate a higher amount or to fight the case. Lurk, if you are correct than Dr. Gelbard is using these ladies to further his own ends (and needs both his doctorate and his bar card shoved firmly up his ass). Any forcible change to how porn does business will run the industry to another state or country. Condoms aren’t an option, not allowing agents to facilitate voluntary referrals to escort agencies is a non-starter and detrimental to performer’s health/welfare and I strongly suspect his whole complaint is filled with lies and outright libel (I wish I could prove it). Derek’s and the industry agents contracts and fee structures do need to be changed but that is likely just frozen piss icing on Gelbard’s shit-filled cake. If that is really what this was all about he wouldn’t be (in many more words) accusing Derek of sexual assault by coercion (that is the term used here in Michigan, anyway — I know California has a similar term but I don’t have it available to quote verbatim). That is almost certainly libelous, if Derek was up to that it would have came out 15 years ago. People don’t start raping people (in this case the accusation is rape by coercion) 15 years after having 100 different, mostly attractive, vulnerable, barely legal women land in their office each year. Many multiple people don’t keep their mouth shut about rape by coercion for that long, if Gelbard really found four former clients that Derek raped by coercion, 50 more would have came out of the woodwork by now. We’ll see but I think this will hinge strongly on whether the defendants go for a quick buck to settle or if DIR is as anti-porn as Cal-OSHA and Los Angeles City and County are. Also, if Derek were guilty of rape by coercion the proper place for those accusations is in criminal court. They weren’t first filed there so I don’t believe the accusations, anyone litigious enough to make the accusation in a DIR proceeding would know that if they are true you go to criminal court first, a criminal conviction for rape by coercion by an entertainment industry agent would just about cement a quick DIR ruling in her favor and a large monetary award — payable by his insurer up to the limits of his policy. Four DIR rulings for rape by coercion in this manner with supporting criminal convictions would shut Derek’s agency down permanently (of course Derek would be in for a drastic change in his lifestyle at San Quentin, Corcoran or Soledad well before the DIR ruling).
I will add that it is possible that Dr. Gelbard has been lied to by his clients regarding the rape by coercion accusations. I wouldn’t have accepted the case with that accusation unless the plaintiffs filed police reports and the DA filed criminal rape charges against Derek based on them. That should be common sense to an attorney but I guess it might not be out in the land of Hollywood.
Also, I refer to Charlotte et. al. as defendants above. I screwed up there, they are plaintiffs, Derek is the defendant. I had a senior moment, I guess.
@mharris
“I strongly suspect his whole complaint is filled with lies and outright libel (I wish I could prove it). ”
It shows and with friends like you Derek Hay doesn’t need enemies.
This complaint is an administrative process… not a civil suit or criminal prosecution. Speculation about his insurance coverage changes nothing I said. Even if your fantasy could be a reality to make this case go away … a different attorney has also filed a complaint.
“Lurk, if you are correct than Dr. Gelbard is using these ladies to further his own ends”
ummmm lawyers file and answer complaints to make money..that’s sorta the whole point of their job. I think Gelbard is using this case to advocate his current and prospective clients best interests..the same way Derek Hay’s lawyers will advocate his best interests.
“Any forcible change to how porn does business will run the industry to another state or country. ”
Since Freeman the porn industry has used a cloak of legitimacy to shield itself from criminal prosecution and that legitimacy has also been used to legitimize prostitution revenues. Now the business of porn is facing another hurdle aka rough patch in the process of legitimizing prostitution.
Seriously stop looking at this like a bad thing for Derek Hay (agents) and see where it can go in the efforts to legalize prostitution. I won’t cry if legalizing prostitution is bad for Derek Hay because it’s good for the workers on the front lines.