I told y’all about ATK
https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detail?id=317386423
Here is Evil Angel
https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detail?id=317143170 – Link now broken
And Erotique
https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detail?id=315534420
Its news porners can use that other sites are completely ignoring, which I totally don’t get…
The interesting one is Evil Angel because to my knowledge Evil Angel doesn’t shoot anything, they are essentially a manufacturers rep. To my knowledge they don’t shoot anything on the property. That means the violations would be on the individual companies represented by Evil Angel I think, so that is one to watch.
Porn is having tough times these days, with OSHA fines coming at a time when revenues are at an all time low. From what I hear pretty much every company is going to all condom.
I can’t help but think that there would have been a better way to handle this situation than the way we have…..But what do I know, I’m just a far removed Hillbilly from Georgia….
34 Responses
Cal OSHA Has Been Busy http://t.co/KQrZQViB9i
I’m not quite familiar with the distribution side, but I can’t think of a reason why they couldn’t fine distribution companies? It’s not as if they have no choice on what they distribute? You’re sure as hell not going to see them distributing child porn… they DO have a choice in the matter. It’s as if no one understands just how much power governmental agencies actually have?
I don’t know? I’m sure others have a much better understanding of this than I do…
This is a horrible example and obviously revolves around illegal activities, but law enforcement doesn’t go after JUST those who manufacture illegal drugs, but those who ultimately sell them as well…
Maybe OSHA just thinks it would be easier to go straight to Evil Angel to collect records and/or documents? I’m assuming they would need to have records on file as well for product they distribute?
I don’t know Evil Angel’s business model, so caveat emptor. But, does Evil Angel contract with producers/directors to produce content that is exclusive to Evil Angel? Does Evil Angel front money to the producers/directors as an advance so they can produce content?
That’s the way the networks work to create television programs. For the most part, the networks are not producers – in fact, until around 2000, the networks were legally prohibited from producing content. They were strictly distributors. However, they were still legally responsible for the content they distributed – I don’t know if they were responsible from an OSHA point of view, but from a First Amendment point of view, if a network broadcast something that was libelous, they could be held liable even if they didn’t hire the writer, actors, director or producers who created the libelous product.
Another example would be the famous Jackson nip slip during the Super Bowl. Janet Jackson wasn’t fined. The producer and director weren’t fined. But, CBS was fined for airing it.
If Evil Angel is approached with the exclusive rights to distribute some director or producer’s line, they would certainly be legally responsible if the line was obscene. For instance, if they decide to distribute scat or kiddie porn. If they have a say in the content – or a say in whether its produced with or without condoms – I think they might be held liable for OSHA violations. That would especially be the case if they provide any development money up front.
Again, shooting from the hip.
@BT –
Yeah, it gets confusing. I mean it’s not as if Evil Angel could necessarily dictate what talent wears or how much they get paid, but do they hold any responsibility for releasing footage which clearly violates OSHA standards? It wouldn’t be allowed in mainstream, but as I’ve learned in great detail the porn industry is on another planet when it comes to general regulation practices… I know what “normally” happens, but that very rarely is recognized by the porn industry.
But, the fact remains that you can shoot any kind of porn you want anywhere you want. Can you market and distribute it in a legal and OSHA-approved manner is the ultimate question? And, who is held accountable for violations?
Also, if companies are shooting porn “underground” without pulling permits would assume they could block distribution and/or marketing?
The whole reason of getting a permit is to ensure you follow all rules and regulations in order to mass market and distribute it.
Which, of course, just leads back to the same “but, what happens in the porn industry because it’s like dealing with a foreign industry?”
Is the Evil Angel link supposed to just link back to your site?
no thats weird it was working last night it was just like atk except it said Evil Angel
n 2004, during the DJ Hiv outbread, TTBoy did everything he could think of to try to get out of the OSHA fines. He said, I wasnt the producer, it was this company,(which he owned) and then said, “the other company is responsible. He tried to play a shell game and boy(no pun) did it backfire BIGTIME. OSHA said, “OK pal, if youre going to play that game we will just fine BOTH of your companies.” OSHA did fine both companies, TTBoy appealed, and lost on both counts.
Not long after TTboy ran off to Florida. No WC, and ttboy paid NOTHING for three people infected, ON HIS SET.
So this situation you are describing was fines for known infections on set? To me that is a lot different than fining for not wearing condoms.
Am I correct that only the bottom link has a violation summary and $ amounts? Am I also reading it correctly that the total fine was about $5,000. I am new to seeing/figuring out these OSHA forms.
Grasshopper, OSHA does not fine for infections,,,,OSHA fines for EXPOSURE to Blood Borne Pathogens and OPIM(other potential infections material) The word infection appears nowhere in any OSHA regualtion.
OSHA fines companies for EXPOSURE that happens,,,that is, when the guys cum touches any mucous membrane, that is an exposure that you can be cited and fined for.
Virtually every single porn scene filmed these days is in violation of section 5193 of the Cal OSHA standard,,,,,,they dont care about infection,,,that is for workers comp to handle,,,OSHA cares about exposure, wheter or not an infection actually occurs. Just because you are exposed does not mean you will catch the disease, but that has NOTHING to do with OSHA regulation.
There have been more than just the inspections Mike linked to here…Many porn companies actually have other legal names than the name the public sees on a video or website.
Erik, in your zeal to try to make an argument against anything that anybody says here you only show your lack of real knowledge about the very basics of the issues being discussed here, and your question above is a perfect example of you complete lack of knowledge. The short answer to your question is NO, they were not fined for infections, they were fined for exposure to OPIM happening in their workplace. Kepp trying Erik, one of these days you might make a good point.
One measure of who is responsible is, whose name is on the performers paycheck.
I think businesses are required to have kits and plans for messes involving bodily fluids. If a chef in restaurant cuts their finger off you can’t just tell the busboy to clean the mess with paper towels. You have to follow a procedure that prevents exposure. Performers might be okay with exposure but what about the crew? In some scenes bodily fluids land on the camera lens. These fluids might on other people or just around the set. Some lucky person on the set has to clean up the mess. If there isn’t proper equipment and plan to clean it up OSHA will fine them.
Erik: It’s hard to tell from the links what violation the two companies committed in order to receive the fines they received. However, while not wearing condoms seems in consequential, that is the violation. In this case, having some kind of barrier protection – wearing a condom – is the OSHA requirement. So, not wearing the condom is a violation you get fined for because you’re exposing the worker to whatever it is you’re trying to avoid by not wearing the condom. It’s the reason a manufacturer can get fined – big time – if as a visitor you walk out onto the plant floor without eye and ear protection. They’ll get nailed even if you don’t get deaf and blind.
Jet is correct on the requirement for kits and plans for cleanup. In addition, if an injury does occur in the workplace – if, in porn, someone was infected or, in the alternative, an actress gets a torn vagina or anus and begins to bleed, those are reportable. You’re required to report accidents and exposures to OSHA so they can investigate.
That’s the way it works in the real world outside of porn.
I wished either of your comments addressed the questions in my comment that you seem to be responding to. I guess you meant to respond to my other comment. I’ll paste below in case anyone can answer.
“Am I correct that only the bottom link has a violation summary and $ amounts? Am I also reading it correctly that the total fine was about $5,000. I am new to seeing/figuring out these OSHA forms.”
What are you rambling about? I was going purely off your quote.
“Not long after TTboy ran off to Florida. No WC, and ttboy paid NOTHING for three people infected, ON HIS SET.”
“paid NOTHING for three people infected
paid NOTHING for three people infected
paid NOTHING for three people infected”
You see know how I may have thought it was due to infections on set? Yeah it was because that is exactly what you said. Even if the assumption of my question was wrong, I was asking the question because that is what you strongly implied. I wasn’t making “an argument against anything that anybody says”. In fact I didn’t make an argument, I asked a question. Get off your high horse and don’t be an a-hole. A simple “No, Infections were not part of the fines” would do just fine. I write a one sentence question and you write paragraphs trying to dress me down. You are obsessed.
Know that I know OSHA doesn’t fine for that your wording is a bit less confusing. But, I asked the original question because I was not aware of that and your wording seemed to suggest fines and infections were linked in this case. See that is how people gain the knowledge they are looking for: they ask. Maybe just an answer instead of a dis next time?
*Now
Erik: Yes, I was responding to the following comment: “So this situation you are describing was fines for known infections on set? To me that is a lot different than fining for not wearing condoms.”
I believe Jilted’s response is correct: OSHA fines for violations of workplace safety rules and not necessarily because of a known infection on a set.
OSHA does inspections of workplaces. They do so either because they’re already engaged with a company; because someone has filed a complaint; or someone has filed an incident report following a workplace accident that bears following up.
So, if you use porn as an example, a workplace safety rule now being enforced is that you must wear a condom as a barrier protection against blood borne pathogens. If someone files a complaint against production company XYZ stating that no one is wearing a condom, OSHA can investigate. Let’s say they do and they find that no condoms are being worn during productions. They may also find other, less serious violations unrelated to sex that are easily remedied. Say, something related to equipment or electric power sources.
They’re either going to work with the company to correct the violations, fine the company for the violations, or both. The fines are going to be ratcheted up based on how serious they are.
In the case of not wearing a condom, that’s the violation. As Jilted put it, they are fining a company for exposing its employees to a workplace injury. Whether an injury – or in this case, an infection – occurred isn’t the point.
To use an OSHA example, if OSHA goes to a construction site and finds that none of the workers is wearing a hard hat or steel toed shoes, the construction company will get fined, regardless of whether anyone was banged in the head or dropped something on their foot and broke a toe.
In every day terms, you get a ticket for running a red light, regardless of whether you caused an accident in the process. You violated the traffic laws.
I’m frankly surprised that OSHA hasn’t also gone after specific sexual acts as potential safety hazards – I’m not talking about anal or double penetration, but squirting into another performers mouth, ass to mouth or analingus. From a purely health-related standpoint, there’s no way to perform those in a way that doesn’t expose one or both partners to disease. All the enemas in the world can’t completely clean a rectum.
Listen up and learn a little something grasshopper. Your litte quote,paid nothing for three people infected,,,,,I notice you left the other part of the sentence that said NO WC,,,,,WC is workers comp. Workers comp and OSHA are completely seperate.
The fact that you thought it was for INFECTIONS on the set is just more proof that you know very litlle, actually nothing, about the topic here. Like I said before, you are like a third grader doing additon and subtraction, trying to debate someone doing geometry and trig.
It gets a little tiresome having to explain the very basics of an argument. If you knew anything about the actual legalities of this you would not have ASSUMED incorrectly, as you so often do.
Keep trying little grasshopper, now, quickly as you can, snatch the pebble from my hand.
And when it comes to this subjec, I AM THE HIGH HORSE, I am the source. I hold ALL of the industry secrets in my pocket. Now turn off the porn and go outside and play.
Just to give a real life example of how someone can die on set and the production company is not responsible:
A rigger was on a platform 30ft. in the air rigging for a stunt. The rigger fell off the platform 30ft. to his death.
OSHA was promptly notified.
The production company was in the clear because, upon inspection, the OSHA required safety harness was still attached to the platform and was closed. This means either the rigger didn’t feel like wearing the harness or he simply forgot to put it on…
The harness was provided and required by the production company.
If the rigger forgot to put it on then that bears no responsibility on the production company. They did everything they were required to do to ensure safety.
(This is actually a true version of events on a recent set.)
So still nothing on theses questions?
“Am I correct that only the bottom link has a violation summary and $ amounts? Am I also reading it correctly that the total fine was about $5,000. I am new to seeing/figuring out these OSHA forms.”
You are quite literally the weirdest person I’ve ever come across online. You take comments threads as serious as anyone I’ve ever seen. You never answered what this meant ““paid NOTHING for three people infected”? Were there 3 people infected on his set? Who or what organization was requiring him to pay in that case? I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that because I know less about the legalities, when I ask a question to learn I get told no answer, just “I’m stupid” for not knowing them. I read nothing while logging into this site about having to know the legalities of OSHA to comment. Really, why would I know that many of them? This is not my life’s work as it is yours. Also, once again if it gets “tiresome” why do you continue? No one is forcing you, you thick headed dult.
Look up. I did include the whole quote in my comment. Second line.
“No WC, and ttboy paid NOTHING for three people infected, ON HIS SET.”
See the way “and” and commas work is that they separate ideas. “No WC for those infected on set” would have made that clear. You said “No WC, and ttboy paid NOTHING for three people infected, ON HIS SET.” that denotes that the WC (I knew what it stood for) and paying for infections were separate issues. Were they not? You didn’t write it well. Yes, if I knew they didn’t fine for infections I wouldn’t have inferred the wrong thing based on your writing. What in most people’s lives would make them know the OSHA rules? That’s why my comment was 1 question. I didn’t really even assume, I asked? I thought I knew what you meant, but I still asked to see if I was correct. Your awful writing combined with me not knowing OSHA rules lead me to the wrong conclusion. Don’t know why it upset you though.
yes
Appreciated. I was just trying to make sure I wasn’t missing something while looking at these forms.
Tragic as it sounds, that outcome makes sense to me. The production company was required to provide safety equipment – to create a safe work environment. It provided the equipment and the equipment was apparently in good working order. For whatever reason, the rigger was not wearing the safety equipment at the time of his death. It’s an accident – a tragic accident, yes – but an accident that was outside of the production company’s control. Or, at the least, not the company’s fault because of a safety violation. The production company would have been liable if it provided the equipment, but told the rigger, hey, whether you use it or not is optional – it’s your choice; or, in the alternative, if the production company said: hey, around here, we understand that death could happen, but we’re rigger athletes. No one wears safety equipment at work. Or worse, a supervisor is standing there and says to the rigger: Hey, you’re supposed to wear that harness, but whether or not you put it on is up to you. It’s optional. For the company, there is no option – they have to be in compliance.
That’s the porn equivalent – directors and producers may have condoms on the set and say they are condom optional, but they also know that the regulation doesn’t include an option. If they let the cameras roll and the talent is not using condoms despite the county regulation and now OSHA regulations, the producer and/or director is in willful violation. They can’t say: We gave them the option and get off the hook.
Cal-OSHA draft OPIM defines primary and secondary producer. The producer is financial stakeholder regardless of who is subcontracted to create the production.
Not sure but expect producers are still arguing over who the producer is with respect to current regulations.
@Erik2690
OSHA and WC (work comp) work hand in hand under the Federal Dept of Labor rules.
OSHA works with businesses to develop, adopt and implement ways to keep workers safe. They are response based system to a request for policy guidance, accident (injury) report or complaint is generally needed to start process and sanctions are civil. Appeals go to administrative law judges at OSHAB (Occupational Safety Health Appeals Board)
WC insurance is required and rates vary with industry data as well as employer claim history. Employers are notified that a claim has been presented and they may dispute it even if they didn’t carry the required coverage. If the board finds the claim valid they pay out through a uninsured fund then they hit the employer with penalty fines on top of back due premiums. Appeals go to administrative law judges WCAB (WC Appeals Board)
The definition of “employee” by OSHA can be different than WC for the same person. Haven’t looked to see if the industry has litigated “employee” with OSHA but do know WC says performers are employees and SCOTUS denied cert for WCAB v. DeuPree after the CA Supreme Ct found Brooke Ashley was an employee entitled to coverage for HIV from a 1998 shoot where she never had to prove she caught HIV on set.
WC is a odd duck…key boarders don’t have to prove their carpel tunnel happened at work, only that they truly have carpel tunnel and that it probably resulted from work related activities. The employer fighting the claim has to prove it isn’t real, it couldn’t be related to work activities or that it clearly didn’t happen at work. With HIV it’s like carpel tunnel or other repetitive movement injuries vs injuries from a fall of ladder at home blamed on a crappy non-ergonomic office chair.
Oops forgot that WC can also impose criminal sanctions with civil penalties and back premiums.
@erik
Both ATK & erotique are open Inspections at this point.
ATK is a new process started 2/12/14 and may involve several inspections or follow up visits before the report is updated to a closed status if no violations are found or listing violations cited.
$5,180 is just the proposed penalty for the four violations listed and will be reduced if the violations are abated (corrected) by date in citation notice. Erotique process started 7/1/13 with a complaint logged before that date then one or more inspections occurred before a meeting on 12/5/13 and violations issued 12/11/13 that were contested on 1/13/14.
Contested violations may be reclassified or dismissed and the fines often change. IG Hustler negotiated a 10k settlement for a much higher proposed fine amount.
3203 refers to IIPP (injury & illness prevention plan)
5193 refers to BBP (BloodBorne pathogens)
H01, A, etc. refer to the specific part of the standard violated.
@BT
Watch out for CITIZENS UNITED V. FEC to be fought against OSHA. Basically that lawsuit is being used to extend First Amendment rights to corporations so all we thought we knew about individual rights is being turned on its head and fought in court rooms here there and everywhere.
@jilted
On top of using shell corps or foreign holding corps for some a few are even using varied SIC and NAICS codes to fly low. Web cams as bookstores vs video production and nice shit like that.
@BT
Great example of primary producer with several layers of subcontracted producers. CBS got the fine because they are the rights holder /stakeholder.
Right back at cha from the hip with this brain spinner. OSHA doesn’t cover unpaid volunteers so does that mean no OSHA for Super Bowl halftime shows? The NFL doesn’t pay Super Bowl halftime performers, they do it for the exposure either as up and comers or want to reestablish relevancy.