Sabrina Writes:
Hi Mike,
I have read your late articles and the attached commentary and i would to start this letter with a sentence which should reassure those who think that there is no distinction between a prostitute and an adult performer and think that we, adult performers, are delusional about it: as an adult performer, i am a prostitute. I have no problems with that. Does that make me different from the rest of the people who like to give the word prostitution a negative sense and i am a particular threat to the adult industry? I don’t think so.
Women are prostitutes. When you fuck a rich guy because he is rich, you are a prostitute; when you fuck a guy because he was nice to you and offered you dinner and drinks and you are hoping for more exploitation you are a prostitute; when you fuck your boss, you are a prostitute.
Men are prostitutes. When you engage in sexual relations solely based on attraction, using your money and status as a lever, you don’t do it in exchange for a payment in money, but you still do it in exchange for a benefit, which is being able to fuck a girl whom otherwise you will never be able to fuck.
Gays are so prostitutes that they have built up a real lobby which use sex as a lever to network and exchange benefits and business (i know what i’m talking about, so think twice before calling me something-phobic-ist; this is no topic for politically correct).
After this necessary premise which hopefully will mitigate part of the negative acception that the word “prostitution” still seems to have (for some) in the 21st century, let’s go back to the porn industry: let’s assume that famous pornstar X has never ever hooked and that for some reasons that is a 100% known fact to the whole industry; now, let’s put her in a fancy bar in Manhattan or Beverly Hills or at the Bellagio in Vegas on a night out to distress and have fun; a rich handsome guy approaches her, flirts with her, offer her drinks, shows his status off and inevitably gets her in bed letting her understand that he could be the catch of her life and fucks her bareback. No money exchange. Just a night out and a fuck with a handsome, rich guy that she hopes she can get together with.
Two days later, famous pornstar X starts a full busy week of porn shootings in porn valley. Is that ok? At the end, she didn’t work as a hook, she never has and the industry people know that beyond any doubts. Is she less at risk than a overt hooker? No, she is not. The problem is not being a prostitute or not, the problem is being professional. I don’t care if Nikki Benz hooks in her free time; i care to know if she does it in a professional way (lab tested client, maybe with an added rapid test parachute) and if she is professional enough to not shoot in porn valley for at least one month if she fucked an untested client. But look, i expect that also from the famous pornstar X after she fucked the untested rich handsome guy just for fun. Whom would you feel comfortable to fuck with on set: a professional pornstar who professionally hooks on the side or an unprofessional pornstar? I’d go with Nikki Benz all my life. Prostitution is not an issue at all. The issue is professionalism, that thing which nobody talks about preferring to cover its lack with piddling issues and bombastic words such as prostitution.
Now, how do you know if a pornstar is professional? How do you know if the one who hooks on the side, does it professionally? Right now you don’t; and for sure it is not something which is ever going to be bullet-proof. But since only certainty of death is bullet-proof, in life, a lot can be done to reduce the margin of error greatly. Since the most obvious first step would be to make prostitution legal and regulated and we all know that it’s not going to happen (that’s where i agree with Mr. Weinstein detractors about him having a political agenda and not giving a damn about adult performers safety, or otherwise he would fight to legalize and regulate hookers rather than denying their existence), we must introduce strict self-regulations in this industry and to invest in education to professionalism of both newcomers and established performers, but also of producers. Let me make you a few examples of what could be done, none of which i have heard coming off the mouth of any relevant character of this performers’ safety querelle:
– Proper job interviews to see if you are fit for the job mentally before physically. If you are not, good luck and goodbye.
– Attitude and psychometric test before first shooting to be repeated every two years.
– Mandatory psychological assessment within two months of first shooting.
– Officially adult industry tailored STDs manual with personal hygiene compendium: what are they, how to visually recognize them when possible, incubation periods, ways of transmissions, possible contagious outcomes etc. make it mandatory to take it with you at any shootings (producer should check before shooting) or no shooting.
– Industry Gyno. Once every two months mandatory check. Performer pays at special reduced rates for further checks if s/he feels comfortable with that one rather than her own gyno. After two months, failing to do the check makes you automatically unavailable for work until you do the check. If somebody doesn’t understand the importance of regular gyno checks when working in porn, let me know…
– Mandatory last three months tests and working history exchange among performers at the time when the shooting is being planned or at least same day of shooting prior to start it (no, this does not happen in the majority of cases these days: it’s all in the hands of the producer who gives the “clear” and performers trust them. It’s really appalling.) If you shot with a cross-performer two weeks ago and your test is three weeks old, i want to know and to have the right to refuse to shoot with you today.
– If you are an overt hooker, you must submit to a rapid test on set (as you know, i would be for making it mandatory in all cases, for everybody: it’s the best possible deterrent ever). Refuse and you don’t get the job and you are quarantined from work for one month or something. Refuse three times and you are off the industry. I don’t care if you fuck people bareback for fun or as a hooker: i care that you do it wisely and that you are professional when it comes to shoot with me a day later.
– Forge a test or just attempt to and you are banned from this industry
– Get caught doing drugs on set or to show up on set under the influence and you are banned from the industry (a huge, common problem of which nobody ever talks about, as if it didn’t exist)
– Right to bring a chaperone on set, at least on premises if the set is small. First unjustified word from the chaperone and s/he’s out and the performer risks not to be hired again. But if you question my professionality because i demand my chaperone on set, i’m probably right to question yours because you don’t want a chaperone on set.
– Don’t hire performers under 21yo of age, possibly 24yo and up. There is plenty of 24yo girls looking like 18yo and although they don’t guarantee maturity 100% , too young performers offer very little of it and they have a shorter professional life span, paradoxically. Hiring girls to do porn when they are 18yo is one the most short-sighted moves ever, by this industry, because every year hundreds of potentially amazing money makers are burned out within a few shootings.
– With trillions of awards around, add one for best professional in and off set. Yes, people will probably be able to buy it like any other awards in this industry and the results will not be necessarily fair, but it would be a nice, costless way to talk about and promote professionality at least among the newcomers and the delusionals who still believe that awards go to those who deserve them. There is never any money invested for promoting the image of the industry itself, in this industry and that’s why, although its a billionaire one, it is always considered a barely legal, not worth of political and economic consideration by the public. That’s why we lose all the battles and soon the war, if we don’t do something tangible now.
I know, put like that the above reminds more the army than the porn industry, but that is simply because nothing of the above is ever and even considered at all to improve porn workers and producers professionality and to make this industry a better one. It’s more convenient to keep discussing if a pornstar is a prostitute, if it’s ok for a prostitute to do porn, if making condoms mandatory is constitutional or not. To change nothing and to keep Dianne Duke cashing as an industry paladin, Michael Weinstein’s as a public safety hero, APAC as the adult performers official union. As long as they can keep their respective supporters thinking that, they can fatten their bank accounts and dismiss all the above mystifying the sex performers safety subject with bombastic words such as condoms and prostitution. Too bad that too many people fall for it. I don’t.
I send you a big hug and invite you to share this letter with your readers, if you had space, time and if you thought it was worth.
Sab
62 Responses
Reader Response From Sabrina http://t.co/Um6So1Oh8J
I admire your comment and it is right on target..kudos for honesty and integrity
And once again Sabrina hits the nail right on the head. Well said Sabrina, all of these things that can and should be implemented, but of course they wont be, and thats pretty sad.
Here is one SIMPLE thing that can greatly increase the effectiveness of the current, hole filled, last resort program of harm reduction. Twice, maybe three times a year, APAC gets all performers, or as many as possible to all test withing the same two or three day perdiod,,,,while the daily partial cleaning of the talent pool is good,,,, if you can clean the entire pool at once, or most of it at once, it will have a ‘trickle down’ effect, reducing those stds dramaticly for a few months, then you do it again. Its a simple part of the harm reduction program that the industry has never embraced,,,and LATATA could be very helpful making this happen. It is a REAL step in performer safety that would be simple to implement, and it would be a benefit to everyone, performers, producers and agents. It would save on lost work days, and its simply a good thing to do,,,,,try it APAC, what have you got to loose at this point.
Sabrina, as much as you might feel like a lone voice, other performers agree with you, they just dont have the balls you have.
Henry Hank Piecura liked this on Facebook.
@Nephilim1334 I think you’ll like this article http://t.co/wHUI4MI7Fu
WE AINT CATCHIN MUCH…BUT WE DID GET SOME NIPPLES
RT @MikeSouth1226: Reader Response From Sabrina http://t.co/Um6So1Oh8J
@Sabrina
Once again a breathe of fresh air! With ‘Prostitution’ defined as exchanging something of value for sex…it applies to every sexually active person. Lol have had lots of fun with this when uptight hoity toity wives try telling me they ‘aren’t like that!’ They don’t like hearing that the priceless intangibles they are citing get cost basis in divorce courts all the time.
Your ideas sound great I hope other performers will take advantage of what you’re sharing and build a core group that will spread useful insight and experience to those willing to forego the lumps of hardknock school.
Jay Mckenney liked this on Facebook.
First, I did not write this, I’ve been asked by more than one person and it was definitely not myself!
A few things… what fantasy porn world are we talking about that these examples could possibly ever work? To begin with, I’m a psychology major, and I don’t think I know one porn star personally who would pass a psychological exam to say they are “okay” to do porn. Not one. The reality is that this industry attracts broken people. And breaks a lot of them more. Let’s not for one second pretend that some of us are just “better” to perform than others because if you are attracted to doing this job, there is DEFINITELY something going on with you psychologically that a professional would call “wrong”, whether it be your childhood, emotional issues, personality issues, whatever it may be. This is not normal human behavior. And it comes with a ton of social consequences. Some handle it better than others but *no one* performing in this industry would be considered a “normal” psychologically healthy individual. I am not excluding myself from this in the least, I am in the pack with the rest of you.
Next major problem, the age limitations you mention. Where is the cutoff? What is “porn” if you are going to limit age? Is Playboy porn? I started with Playboy when I was 19. I would never have started in this industry if I couldn’t have started there. Or is it Penthouse level nudity we draw it at? or girl/girl? where exactly do you want to say “this is porn, they have to be x age”. Defining porn is impossible.
Not to mention I seriously doubt a bunch of 24 year olds are going to make up for the draw, youth, and vitality of younger girls. What you will end up with is a bunch of girls who have to support their kids and have to jump into the industry headfirst (which plenty do anyway) instead of slowly sinking their teeth in and figuring out what is right for them. I say that keeping in mind that the solo and girl/girl work I made my career on is almost obsolete now.
If you want to change anything, especially this industry which thrives on secrecy, you have to be reasonable. Throwing out impossible goals only makes it so nothing ever changes. I think you have so much intelligence and insight to bring to the industry so I would love to see a similar, realistic list.
On the note of mental health however, there needs to be affordable mental healthcare available to everyone in the industry. I don’t know how to even begin to solve that.
@SabrinaMaree: Wow! I love your honesty when it comes to describing the type of people that this industry attracts. How refreshing! Awesome comment!
@SabrinaMaree
Hi Sabrina. First of all, thank you for commenting with your name. I don’t need to explain to you or to Mike’s readers why i appreciate that, i just wish that more girls spoke out one way or another (aka agreeing/disagreeing) without hiding behind an anonymous nick. Now about your comment: i’m a big fun of common sense; i wasn’t suggesting necessarily to enforce a 24yo rule, but to use common sense when hiring certain performers. Some legally over age performers are still clearly psychologically under age for doing porn and this can be assessed with a simple job interview which goes beyond body assets, by a producer. Why do you want to hire someone clearly not fit for the job, beside boobs and butt and a teen look? Choosing the right candidate for the job is the ABC of employment, but not in this industry. Then let’s not complain if the world out there sees the adult industry like the evil who exploits troubled girls, because that’s exactly what happens, in some cases.
My list is definitely unrealistic at this time and probably even faulty. The people who should “enforce” it and comply with it are the same people who created the problems addressed on that list, so i’m not holding my breath. But things evolve and people come and go and drastic changes often start with unrealistic propositions. Real is now, but unreal is tomorrow’s real. If we never start talking about changes, nothing will ever change. The whole discussion about condoms and prostitution are just smoke in the eyes to cover the real issue of this industry, which is lack of professionalism at any level. With due exceptions, there is nothing more amateurish than porn valley when it comes to do business. And you can’t be an amateur when health and psychological issues are involved; i correct myself: you can, but then you’ll always be treated like an amateur and you’ll have to deal with rules and restrictions imposed and enforced by others in the name of public safety. If you want to be treated like an adult, act like one. My 2 cents of course.
A big hug to you, Sab.
@SabrinaDeep: Being a member of the general public…I have mentioned numerous times on here..and have been attacked numerous times by a certain person and some others.. For just stating..how odd it is to me that people associated with this industry post anonymously.
whether they know it or not .. Their actions speak volumes! It tells me they are doing it because they are either just cowards, period or because they know what they are spewing is complete and utter nonsense and they cowardly anonymously want to harass anyone who is smart enough to see though their bullshit and/or doesn’t agree with their agenda..In the hopes of making that person shut up and go away…
.For these reasons I rarely pay attention to anything they have to say… And I have to admit I have LOL at their pathetic tactics numerous times!
They be hilarious! 🙂
Anyway, Whether I agree with the person or not ..it is soooooo refreshing to see a member of the industry not post anonymously..
And it’s even better when they have the balls to not anonymously speak the truth! So kudos to you two!
@SabrinaMaree
Thank you for clarifying that you aren’t the ‘Sabrina’ who penned the post.
To me the fact that someone took time to consider and post their ideas is much more important than the feasibility of any component in their plan.
Some people have legitimate reasons to be anonymous. Porn politics.
I agree the rest are cowards. But I don’t need an anonymous name because I refuse to comment on anything involving gossip… I think thats why a lot of names are anonymous; calling out their “friends”.
Said the guy posting anonymously. For years I have posted under this, and other ‘handles;’ but people in the industry have always known who I am. I do this because, its not about ME, its about the issues, well, and my $650,000.00 that I was ripped off for. When someone rips you off, and takes the CASH that was meant to pay bills and goes to a luxury resort in Beliz, and then says to you “What are you going to do about it?’,,,well maybe, just maybe, you DO something about it that costs them expotentially more than the cash they ripped off from you.
ALL of this bullshit,Isadore Hall, legislation, etc. in the last two years could have been avoided, but what goes around comes around, youre welcome.
@SabrinaDeep
Kudos for pointing out the importance of screening performers and encouraging stakeholders to develop criteria. Your insight and SabrinaMaree both point out that the objectification performers face before during and after their careers can be a problem.
The expense and logistics of formal psych testing do make it unrealistic but that doesn’t exclude their value as self assessment tools for performers. This would help differentiate someone saying life isn’t worth living after a self assessment vs I want to die (of embarrassment) over a faux pas. It could also be a steeping stone to creating a list of resources to address the underlying issues.
If individual stakeholders want to raise their age criteria I’m all for it but regulating it would be problematic at best.
I love the industry GYNO and would add Urology as well. With the amount of anal sex in porn adding the doc who does colonoscopies for an annual visit probably wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
I disagree with the three month exchange of information and discriminatory adding rapid tests. A MINIMUM standard testing protocol directed by a physician who maintains HIPPA compliant records via verification codes would be my preference. This lets the doc ask & test for STD outside the std panel and use anatomical swabbing when appropriate. There are over 30 STD with many just waiting to be the next 2012 syphillis type outbreak. Allowing a doc to add testing will help determine if the symptomatic patient was a one off or part of a larger issue.
Rapid testing raises some issues without simple solutions. Using ELISA rapid testing for ‘overt’ lets the covert slip by. If the concern is acute HIV the ELISA won’t find an infection that was in the window for the most recent RNA test. Concerns that someone is using medicine to suppress the virus is a cauldron of emotionally charged arguments that the industry needs to address with accurate information.
Discussing drugs and defining the ‘set’ would be a lot of fun. Is meth a drug or performance enhancer like injected dick drugs? What about a couple drinks to enhance Xanax?
Agree or disagree with specifics this post and your many comments your ongoing passion for performer safety is a refreshing alternative to the Industry party lines. Taking the risk and making the time to let people know your thoughts is admirable and I hope more performers follow your example.
Sabrina is right. There is NOTHING in this industry that resembles professionalism, from the top producers, to the agents, to the performers; This is why your health program is a joke, not a single responsible medical professional is involved.
The porn medical program today is a PARODY of any real medical program. “Condoms MIGHT break, therefore its better not to use them at all,” “Our testing is equal to barrier protection” “Testing PREVENTS people from being exposed’ Its a parody of real healthcare, an unfortunately, the industry doesnt have the talent, or the brainpower in its ranks to fix it,,,,simple things that could improve your system, but not one single person with enough brains to make it happen,,,,and thats you APAC, not enough brains to make one simple change that could lower your std rates expotentially, sad but true/.
@SabrinaMaree: wow! You are a breath of fresh air on here. you are smart, honest and not an industry coward. you really should comment more often on the “non gossip” stuff.
You cannot speak out in this industry and expect to keep working in it. Sabrina does her own thing and does not have to rely on the ‘industry machine’ for her career, thats what sets her apart, and congrats to her for that.
Any performer, especially L.A. based, who speaks against the industry line is just simply not hired for any more jobs, it is as simple as that, period. Once you speak up you instantly become an EX-porn performer.
I would never assume as much to speak for Sabrina, and maybe I am wrong, but I doubt they (L.A> Producers) are knocking down Sabrina’s door offering her work these days, not that she needs them.
SMH it’s okay for people outside the industry to post anonymously but performers ought to be posting their personal thoughts under the brand we know them for?
Lol! Lurking do you ever get tired of listening to your retarded self?
Like I said Sabrina Maree is a breath of fresh air on here..
Your “act” has grown stale!
But wait! Even Sabrina Deep said that she would like to see more girls in the industry speak out without hiding behind an anonymous name.. I thought you agreed with her, jilted… I thought the other one, lurk agreed with what she said… You guys are flip flopping all over the place!
Oh and jilted? You have said over and over and over again on here that most performers don’t have the balls to speak out about anything and now you turn around and say they can’t speak out because they won’t be able to get work? Huh? Say what? Talk about contradicting yourself!
I would like to see it too,,,,it just aint gonna happen for the obvious reasons already stated,,,,what about that dont you get,,,,,Sabrina here does not rely on the regualr industry machine, she has little to lose,,,where as the vast majority of other performers are not in her situaltion that allows her this freedom without a direct hit to her abitlity to work in the industry.
I would love to see performers speak out,,,,,,I just know the reasons they wont,,,,that doesnt mean i disagree with sabrina or am flipping on the issue.
I have been smakc dab, right inthe middle, firsthand, dealing with this for years, and have perfonally, firsthand, spoken to HUNDREDS if not over a thousand performers,FIRSTHAND< DIRECTLY,,,,,but hey,,,Common can read between the lines so obviously he knows better than anyone who has been in the middle of it, firsthand, for years.,,,,
Common,,,the day you have 1/10th of one single percent of the knowledge on this subject that either I or Sabrina have, let us know, until then please stop 'rephrasing' what I have been talking about for years now.
ps,,,I would like the world to be all unicorns and happy thoughts, but that too aint gonna happen.
@jilted Hola to you! You are right. It’s no secret that doors in porn valley are closed for me. I have always pretended to be treated according to the principles that i support also in this letter and i have always declined off-set sexual offers which may “strengthen business networking” (obviously those are not my words). And yet if you publicly ask any porn valley producer, performer, media if they have any problems with Sabrina Deep, they will tell you NO, because otherwise they will have to tell you about their problem of dealing with professionalism. I don’t know if i have given something to porn valley, but i know for sure that i owe porn valley nothing: the little or much that i am, i am because i have built it by myself.
My first time on Howard Stern came well before my first ever shooting in porn valley; my third time on the show, i remember i was there with Bree Olson when her stunt with Ginger Lynn’s ex just started: when we came out of the building after the show, there were tens of fans waiting outside and to much surprise of Bree, they were all there for me and none stopped with her, who immediately disappeared pissed into a taxi. This just to say that i haven’t built my brand with porn valley’s aid at all and i have always been able to not compromise with shit and to offer and require respect and professionalism. Sure, i would have liked to receive some sort of recognition in San Fernando and being the object of a lot of productions over there, maybe a few more awards nominations, or someone from APAC getting back to me saying that they would have been happy for me to volunteer for their project: i am an exhibitionist and the more the merrier. But still bringing my own chaperone, pretending to check tests before hand, complaining about partners sniffing coke and smoking joints between scenes, halting filming if a hand which was down my throat unwanted and unscripted comes out with some blood on the finger tips, refusing to sign 2257 and contract before scene or/and before being paid etc etc.
As you see, it’s easy to speak out using your name when nobody can tell you shit about your business conduct. The worst it can happen is that they start ignoring you, but you know what? I don’t sell porn to porn valley: i sell porn to the millions of consumers throughout the world. They are those who pay for porn, not porn valley. SO, being ignored by porn valley may hurt my exhibitionist side, maybe even a bit my ego, at times, but not my bank account. That’s why i disagree when you, among others, genuinely believe that performers don’t speak out for fear of losing their job. There’s something more than that, in most cases. I doubt it that the status quo that we are trying to question in here benefits only producers, media and agents.
Lol! Nice spin but sorry I ain’t buying it.
So you post anonymously even though everyone in the industry knows it’s you. And you do this because it’s not about you but the issues? Huh? Yeah, that makes sense!
Well, After you and Toby mentioned LIB a few months ago and said you didn’t want this site to turn into that one..I decided to go over there and take a look to see what all the fuss was about.. I discovered that you did post on there under 3 dif names and someone outed you.. So you can’t be telling the truth when you said everyone knew who you were because I see you argued with people like jeremy steele and judging by his comments he certainly didn’t know who the hell you were… And you also personally attacked him therefore backing up what I say about one of the reasons people associated with the industry post anonymously is so they can cowardly harass anyone who doesn’t share their views or fit into their agenda without being identified..
“the day you have 1/10th of one single percent of the knowledge on this subject that either I or Sabrina have, let us know”
Shouldn’t you also be telling this to lurking Reader? She says , like me, she is not associated with this industry in any way, she says is just a humble housewife/grandma… Yet she continues to act like an expert on it… Why does her OPINION matter more than mine?
Thank you Sabrina for confirming what I also believe to be true. That the reasons performers don’t speak out has nothing to do with fear of losing work but for OTHER reasons!
Well said Sabrina,,,,lets put it this way,,,,most performers dont speak out becuase they dont give a shit, they are not professionals, and could care less about themselves or others,,,,,then there are otherw who would like to speak out, but wont for fear of retaliation, that retaliation most likely just simply not being hired for work any longer/.
But aside from yourself Sabrina, have you seen or heard any other currently working performers speak on thiese issues like you do? For currently working performers to question the status quo, they have to question themselves for they ARE the ones who accept the current status quo.
Congratsto you Sabrina for YOUR success, which you built by being professional, a lesson that way to many performers, and others, never learn. No two people will every agree on everything, that what makes interesting, and informative debate, not nitpicking every little word. APAC lacks the balls, brains, and professionalism to even consider taking any advice from someone like Sabrina.
A member of APAC contacted me a few days ago after the post Iput up regarding a semi-annual, all get tested at once to clean the pool idea,,,a tried and true Harm Reduction strategy to actually REDUCE the rate of std’s. Basicly she said, in a nutshell,,,it will never happen, because it was YOUR idea.
Common,
One reason being, and this will NOt be a shocker to lurk,,Idont believe for one minute that lurk doesnt have some connection to the industry.
Sabrina didnt say that “wasnt” the reason, she said there is more than that, and she is right, apathy being a big part of the rest of the reason. It doesnt change the fact that if any current working performer comes out and does not tow the industry line, they are finished, period, end of conversation. A hundred performers will give you a hundred different reasons why they accept the current status quo. the truth is often much simpler than the thousands of stories conjured up in the imagination to try to make more complicated that which is really quite simple.
Common,,,please stop rephrasing what others say to try to justify your opinions,,,,Youre entitled to those opinions. But please dont try to tell someone who lives in the eye of the storm that the wind isnt blowing just a little ways away.
Exactly, most of the performers don’t give a shit it has nothing to do with fear of not getting work.. Their actions tell me that. That’s my opinion..
I am not rephrasing anything jilted. You are
[Deleted]
From Mike South –
For the most part you guys are OK but its starting to get outta hand here….Lurking Reader is the closest thing Id have to a senior moderator here if she wanted the job so knock it the fuck off… if you accuse someone of lying you better be able to PROVE IT…you didnt. I have no problem with discourse but you best stop making it personal…that was the problem om LIB you people like Jeremy jacking every thread and making it a personal beef…if you have a beef with someone here take it up via email not in the forum. the rest of us dont wanna hear that shit…can I get a amen!
now That is the better way to put it….thanks
“A member of APAC contacted me a few days ago after the post Iput up regarding a semi-annual, all get tested at once to clean the pool idea,,,a tried and true Harm Reduction strategy to actually REDUCE the rate of std’s. Basicly she said, in a nutshell,,,it will never happen, because it was YOUR idea.”
I’m not surprised at all. And that’s why it’s going to be hard to change things: they have no idea/s.
It’s not really hard to understand: sex away from the camera and away from tested people is one of the major steps that brought infections into the industry. People catch stuff, plain and simple. They don’t have to be hookers or do auctioned off fan fucks to be a problem either, it’s just your simple every day life that can get you.
A perfect example is a porn girl who has a steady boyfriend (or who is married). They have been together for a long time, and they have bareback sex – heck, they are a couple, right? He’s not in the business, so he doesn’t have to get tested. The problem? When he was away on a business trip last month, he fucked a different hooker every night, and some of them let him go bareback and one allowed bareback anal too.
So now he comes home and fucks his GF/wife bareback, and in the process, gives her the infection he didn’t know he picked up from the hookers. She doesn’t realize there is an issue, it’s her husband after all! She goes on the set 2 days later, has unprotected sex with a couple of partners, and boom… you have transmission from hooker to non-industry guy to industry girl to industry guys… even through all of the industry people were “tested”.
The real problem here is the unprotected (and even somewhat protected) sex with people who are not tested and not part of the industry. You never know (even if you think you do) if they are safe or not. Fucking on a hot date isn’t any different from hooking. Same people, really – just he buys the girls dinner and drinks instead of leaving her a “donation” envelope. The results (sexually) are the same, perhaps even more dangerous because more chances are taken.
Condoms could help – but they don’t fix everything. They aren’t used for every act, they aren’t without flaws (hands up every guy who has had a condom break on them… answer is “most of us” at some point). There are no perfect solutions, and being personally responsible just ain’t happening in porn.
@mikesouth
Thank you
@sabrinadeep
Sad that it took months for APAC to respond to you and sadder still if this was the extent of their response to your entire post.
Any true performer advocacy group ought to be the first place a new or experienced performer can easily find resources to help them navigate their career.
If every porn star today stopped having sex with untested civilians there would still be std’s in the performer pool. That whole, “std’s come from the outside” may have been an issue decades ago, but it is just plain silly to still be repeating that same old industry line…..The Std’s are in the performer pool NOW, today, right now, and are being spread among performers today, right now, no outside help from civilians needed. B
But if APAC had half a brain amongst all its members they would do a bi-annual, all test at once cleaning of the pool, and drasticly reduce the overal rates of stds. Just simply testing 3-5%of the pool daily will NEVER< REPEAT NEVER get the stds out of the performer population,,,its just a vicious cirlce.
The days of "civilians" are to blame for the stds were gone twenty years ago. The 'big" cleanup, testing everyone within a short time frame was ALWAYS supposed to be part of AIM"s program,,,they just never did it. And to those in APAC who disapprove of this idea simply because it came from me, well you are showing your true colors, you would rather have a higher std rate than to implement a SIMPLE program simply because someone you dont like suggested it, and that is why APAC is a joke, run by a bunch of dupes. That and the fact that they STILL dont test for std's in the rectum or throat.
Jilted, let’s be fair here. The performer pool isn’t really more or less infected than the rest of the population when you take levels and types of sexual activity into consideration. Moreover, the “industry” is mostly concerned with HIV/AIDS and a lot less concerned with HPV and herpes. The reality here is that testing isn’t being done on all possibly STDs, only the big ones.
If you used herpes (as an example) as a reason to remove someone from the talent pool, you would face a pretty big problem. 1 in 6 Americans are infected with Herpes simplex. So even bases on those levels, you would toss out nearly 20% of the performer pool on day one. that’s pretty tough.
There are no simple solutions. However, it is clear that EVERY (and I mean EVERY) case of HIV in the industry came from contact with someone outside the industry. HIV doesn’t just magically appear, it comes from where. It’s pretty hard to deny the truth in the matter.
“That and the fact that they STILL dont test for std’s in the rectum or throat.”
Full adult industry workers test that we do here in Spain includes throat and 3 more tests than in US for a total of 62Euros or 71USD. Clean private clinics run by medical staff. This to say that something is wrong also on the testing organizations side. US prices are outrageous for the quality of limited tests they offer, facilities don’t resemble anything clean and staff look anything, but medical, at least in the different facilities i’ve been in the LA area.
@mike: lol! You deleted that comment because you KNOW I am telling the truth and you as usual are protecting your friend “lurking reader”….
By the way, jilted is the one who said he “thinks” lurking is someone associated with the industry.. Which if true.. Not to mention Judging by her behavior alone which is not the normal actions of someone not associated with this industry..PROVES she/he is a liar..
Oh and mike? I did NOT hijack this thread.. Jilted and lurking got up set once again ..for obvious reasons…after I stated that people associated with the industry who post anonymously are cowards and Sabrina Maree agreed with some of what I said….
I also brought up this guy jeremy steele because it is a FACT that Tim tritch posted under two fake names ..that I know of anyway… On LIB…And personally harassed that guy steele just because he didn’t share tims views on condoms and other bizarre issues… Tim said on here that even though he was posting anonymously everyone in the industry knew who he was ..but if you read the comments on there ..it confirms that steele had no clue who Tim was confirming what I say about why one of the reasons people in the industry post anonymously is so they can harass people who don’t agree with their views without being identified….that goes for both the anti condom and pro condom side…
@rawalex
Let’s be fair.
I’ll argue that the performer pool is more infected than the rest of the population. Given two extremes and a medium this seems to be the logical conclusion and it’s backed up by arguments used to dispute the data presented for ab1576.
Last spring a UTI caused me to get my first ever non routine std tests and outside a roommate bringing home crabs before I was sexually active I never experienced any STI. This puts me near the celibate extreme. Short term monogamy has lower infection rates than multiple partners who have less than MSM at the other extreme. The median infection rate is the total of all five groups divided by five.
The total population median is lower by virtue of the celibate and monogamous that are pretty much excluded from the talent pool. Outside the rare exception to the rule of virgins entering the talent pool most of the talent flowing in each day falls into the two riskiest groups (Multiple partners and MSM) so we take the total infections and divide by three and poof a higher median right off the bat.
This is the same argument used to dispute the study validity stating that the data was skewed by performers choosing the participating study facilities because they suspected or knew they were infected.
Moving along in the three groups there are numerous subgroups that are more common to porn. Contracted appearances at strip clubs, BDSM and other fetish clubs that don’t require tests or prohibit off set sex are routine vs the non-porn one off experimentation, occasional or special event.
Let’s not forget the pals, parties, casting couches and agent booked escorting gigs where no tests are required. Wanna be performers fuck the whole room and the lucky get fronted testing cash for their professional debut as the pals, party hosts, couch fuckers and clients are merrily fucking in and out between the talent pool and total population. Meanwhile the FSC is shouting from rooftops how great their testing protocol gate is at protecting performers from the nasty shit the total population is herding around that gate in droves.
But to be fair the gate worked cuz the performer has a green check and for the sake of argument we won’t complicate things by mentioning prophylactic antibiotic use that isn’t happening cuz it would violate the trusted honor code of porn.
I deleted the comment because it was childish if you cant disagree without resorting to that kind of thing you already lost the argument. try to keep it civil I dont wish to spend my time playing babysitter here if I thought LR did she would BE the mod….
Of course they are more infected than the rest of the population pool – but that’s a pretty unfair comparison. That would include many people who are not sexually active at all. If you are going to compare, then you have to compare to similar groups… say like people who do random one night stands from bars.
You have to remember, porn people (guys and girls) have an incredible amount of sex with an incredible amount of people in an incredibly short amount of time. A girl shooting 3 or 4 scenes a week would have 200+ partners in a year. Outside of pure hookers, that’s a pretty impressive number.
So it’s not just a case of striking off the celibate and non-actives, you have to strip off anyone who has not had a lifetime of sexual experience in a short period of time.
The reality (repeated over and over again around here) is that outside sexual intercourse – especially hooking and high paid unsage sex with rich dudes in the middle east and such – is a big driver here. Yes, there are STD already in the system that need dealing with. But even if you entirely delouse the talent pool on Friday, by Monday a certain percentage of your talent has picked something up during their “off” hours. 100% (without exception) of the HIV in the system came from outside of the system. STDs and HIV don’t spontaneously appear – they have a source. Many will contract STDs from other performers, but the original source is because of outside behaviors and contacts.
Unless pursuing my interest in policy on this site amounts to an industry association then Jilted’s beliefs are mistaken.
As for JUDGING me…fuck you and the horse you rode in on! How dare you not only ASSUME I OUGHT to act or speak according to your ideas of NORMAL to fit some bullshit stereotypical ideas but take it further to claim this proves I’m a liar makes me even prouder to own my claim to be anything but an ordinary homemaker.
It takes a special kind of fucked up to take the liberties you’ve been taking with my details and the fact that you haven’t revealed a single personal detail about yourself while you claim having your assumptions betrayed somehow proves I’m a liar just adds a whole new dimension of fucked up.
It’s been a pleasure taking advantage of this opportunity to inform you that I’m not beholden to you in anyway and will never be accountable for your fucked up delusional stereotypical ideals. Consider yourself fed troll!
@mikesouth
Having just fed the troll I’m thinking it might be a bit before I’d be qualified to moderate and I remain in awe of your restraint 😉
@rawalex
To be fair I kinda glossed over “when you take levels and types of sexual activity into consideration” and headed for my pet peeve with the testing gate.
Still think my argument stands if monogamy and celibacy are dropped from the equation. Finding someone willing to perform with the agreed impressive 200 annual partners is much easier via escort ads than the one off experimental visits to fetish clubs or volunteer Sunday school teachers.
Not only does porn recruit commercial sex workers (classed the same as MSM for risk purposes) but the industry makes no secret of of agents and some producers banking fees for booking gigs with those rich middle eastern guys who demand unsafe sex. Which makes it problematic to point the blame there and ignore reality of how that affects pals, parties, and casting couches off-set and behind the scenes. That seems as logical as pretending restaurants are limited to the dining room.
The day porn bans escorting performers and requires testing for pals, parties and casting couches before the fact is the day I’ll get on board with your argument that STDs especially HIV are coming from outside. Till then as your polar opposite on this the lack of disagreeable in the disagreement is appreciated more than I can say.
Sabrina, I agree that rectal and throat swabs should be performed every 14 or 30 days along with the blood test (rectal/throat swabs aren’t that hard to do and should not be painful at least to those girls and trannies that take dick up the ass with any regularity). It would also be nice if it cost $71 for testing rather than our $200 plus $35 shipping fee but since in Spain the testing agencies are likely government-run (assuming they are like most of Europe) rather than for-profit I suspect that won’t be happening here anytime soon.
I am also glad you found a way to keep to your principles and perform in adult film even if it did require you doing so in Spain. Maybe someday we will have enough respect for ourselves here in the US where you could come home and perform regularly. We may disagree with some things but as with Jilted I do respect you and consider your positions on adult industry matters. I disagree with required condoms, not professionalism and certainly not lacking common sense like Princess Donna allowing activities that popped a breast implant (notice she isn’t working for Kink anymore, could this be the reason why her contract wasn’t renewed recently — I bet that popped tit implant cost Kink’s insurer at least $15K to fix) and (IIRC) Marty allowing a bleeding dick to be shoved up a woman’s pussy, IMO a condom would not be enough protection for that one but at least it would have shown some deference to the issue at hand. Don’t get me wrong, I like Kink and Marty’s incident might have been due to lack of company policy on the matter (as the participants supposedly consented to the scene continuing and policy and training did not clarify what should be done in that situation) but everyone including Donna knows you don’t do things that pop tit implants on a porn set, you don’t need a company policy for that!
@mharris127
I have always clearly stated from the beginning my position about enforced condoms: it’s wrong and it won’t fix a thing (talents should be able to wear condoms though if they decided to do so). To the contrary it is going to lower the guard on testing very soon. I am also saying, though, that with the lack of professionalism and unity of intents that this industry shows, other people and organizations are going to make the rules for us, one of which seems to be the condom one for now, and us and only us are to blame. If you mess up, somebody gotta clean your mess and sometimes not the way you like it. Hug you good night.
@SabrinaDeep
I see condoms like training wheels on a bike. FSC barkers shout that everyone knows how to ride a bike and ought to be able to without the benefit of training wheels. This is fine for folks who have the experience and ability to know better than to accept a carmex on the dick excuse that turns out to be syphillis but not so good when this corner spill can take out hundreds or even thousands of much needed paychecks.
The honor code isn’t working nor is FSC PASS because there is no systemic industry education teaching newbies and holding old timers accountable. For company’s that show their performers can ride a bike there should be a provision to allow the training wheels to come off.
I apologize for putting words in your mouth, then Sabrina. I do agree that lack of professionalism is putting the industry at grave risk as we are seeing with the forced condom brigade headed by Michael Weinstein and Izzy Hall. However, using that lack of professionalism as an excuse is just their way to get what they want — their real reason is the Christian morality they wish to force on us as Izzy is a Baptist preacher seeing this as a way to “clean up the morality in CA” and Weinstein is just along for the ride as he is pissed about having to pay to treat one or two performers that somehow got HIV and sees this as both payback and a money-saving move for his “charity” — even though he doesn’t know how/where these people actually caught HIV. Considering one of the main tenets of Christianity is that if a person accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour all is forgiven but also that Christians are not supposed to force their views on others this strongly, in the latter regard Izzy needs to ponder his religious beliefs regarding the adult industry more thoroughly.
The lack of professionalism in adult film could cause a VD outbreak or other injury, however as Princess Donna’s lack of care causing a performer’s breast implant to puncture or explode shows — I don’t know what kind of drugs she was on that day but (rhetorically) I want some, it has to be an experience to be so zonked out that as a director you allow activity that punctures a breast implant, in decades of daily drinking I have never been so impaired that I would allow that to happen in my care. Unfortunately, those in the industry need to realize that what they do affects everyone else in the biz. Activities that have a high chance of causing severe injury need to be curtailed (note that does not mean BDSM as a whole needs to stop, as a BDSM person myself I know it can be done with relative safety as long as some common sense and care is used — even heavy caning and suspension). Performers also in the near term also need to pick between performing and escorting both to protect health/safety and to keep the morality crusade at bay, they will not be able to continue to do both without jeopardizing the industry politically (I hope things change so that is not necessary in the future). People in the industry need to think about PR value in everything they do on set, that is unfortunate but with Izzy and Co. coming at porn on one side and the government on the other what people do now may determine whether porn continues to be produced legally in the US or not. Not getting into fist fights with your girlfriend (whether in actuality or just in appearance) and getting arrested at the AVN convention would also help in this regard (this one’s aimed at Clover in particular, that isn’t his first arrest for beating his girlfriends either).
Lurk, I agree that the chapped dick excuse should not fly. I disagree on forcing condoms on any company but Carmex will not cure Syphilis (or Herpes for that matter but at least that won’t kill you). I don’t know the best way to educate on that matter but at least the old AIM videos were a good start. The APAC video is piss poor in that regard, it essentially warns that a person can die from VD but doesn’t explain the signs and symptoms of the different VDs. Here in MI comprehensive sex education is required in the freshman year health education class that most students are required to take by most districts (those schools without health classes must meet the standard some other way). However, parents can exclude their teen-agers from sex-ed coursework which needs to change. That is better than some states (sorry Mike but I have to say this is mainly in the Deep South) which either require abstinence only or abstinence based education with minimal actual sex-ed, many don’t even require that what sex-ed is taught is factually based. A few states don’t require any sex-ed at all (which is better than essentially abstinence preaching combined with “extra-marital sex will kill you and send you to Hell” by the local clergy as happens in some states but far from ideal). Between parents excluding their children from sex-ed classes, required abstinence based laws and no sex-ed at all a lot of our porn performers aren’t receiving the fact-based sex-ed they need to function adequately in the industry or in life. I would like to see the industry deal with this, the AIM video was a good place to start but I would like to even see that improved upon. Maybe an internet-based factual certification program can be created where the agents require their clients to read/view the material and pass a computer-administered exam before performing. I suspect one of the university medical schools in CA would love to assist in such a program. Maybe the people running the industry and the agents just don’t realize that some states either don’t require sex-ed at all or botch the job for political reasons and this program can be created with their assistance.
@mharris
If the industry acted ‘professionally’ and created ‘effective’ self-regulation they wouldn’t be worrying about Hall, Weinstein or AHF ….they didn’t so what started in 2004 as a notice to performers on OSHA’s site has become Measure B, a proposed statewide ACT and soon to be finalized addition of 5193.1 to Title 8, Div 1, Chp 4, Subchapter 7 General Industry Safety Orders, Article 109 Hazardous Substances and Processes.
Regulation by definition is a rule or directive AND maintained by an authority. FSC claims the industry is self-regulating as they proclaim their powerlessness and lack of authority to maintain their rules and/or directives. They claim their rules work but offer no proof as they blame situations and events on those who didn’t follow the rules.
In other words they create ruling directives and claim the authority to maintain they work. About as effective as relying on a unicorn for your meat and mead.
@mharris
The fact is the industry has lots of shoulds and oughts and the only standards they’re concerned with is the ones they are trying to skirt to cover their asses. Pretty ironic if you ask me that an Industy that thrives on anal sex goes to such lengths to cover their own asses in the pursuit of fresh asses to plunder.
Unfortunately that is true, Lurk.
Also, the day you find a unicorn please take a picture and send it to me care of Mike. I promise not to go hunting and try to kill and eat it. If Aaliyah Love (or the cute red-headed Wendy’s commercial chick) is riding the unicorn please have her pose naked on the unicorn and send the pictures to Larry Flynt at Hustler. 🙂
I don’t know what to say about sex parties/casting couches (at least the kind where porn is not being filmed). I hope they do not happen regularly in such a manner that people are being coerced into a free fuck in order to get a scene. I don’t want to restrict whom a porn performer may “date” but if you mean porn chickies are being coerced into fucking porn directors outside of a porn set in order to get a scene I see a big problem. If directors really want to get some poon-tang action with multiple porn chickies each week they need to do what Porno Dan and Matt Williams do and Peter Acworth used to do and get tested for VD then (assuming the tests come back negative) fuck them on camera and pay them for the fucking. I for one would love to fuck a few women in porn (Nica Noelle, Maitresse Madeline, Aaliyah Love and Veruca James come to mind) but if I were a director that type of multiple partner in a short time activity off-set could both make my company look bad and add to the negative PR that Weinfuck, Izzy and Co. use to demonize the adult film industry — especially if I were to do so without the industry VD testing panel (even with the VD test I could still be accused of attempting to force porn chickies to fuck me first in exchange for a scene whether that was actually a consideration between us or not). Admittedly if Nica Noelle and three other porn chickies were to jointly attempt to seduce me the first time I meet them (I know this is fantasy land but let’s assume it is not for a moment) they would probably be able to do so easily which would make me a poor PR example for the industry even coercion was not going on.