James Deen Fined 78,000 for failing to provide condoms

50 Replies to “James Deen Fined 78,000 for failing to provide condoms”

  1. LurkingReader

    Well that’s impressive he racked up higher fines than Kink did.

    California & Nevada are separate state administered OSHA plans so not as easy to combine complaints unless they appeal via regional process….which is a Federal process. Chances are that kind of appeal will backfire with the stuff legal brothels have in place.

  2. Ivy

    For those that don’t want to click on @LurkingReader’s link:

    Deen avoided any responsibility, willfully:
    “When Cal/OSHA initially opened its investigation on December 8, 2015,Sevilla and his counsel refused to provide Cal/OSHA with requested safety documentation or permission to investigate.”

    That tactic didn’t work. Duh. So investigation concluded:
    “…when there is a realistic possibility that death or serious harm
    could result from the actual hazardous condition.”

    POSSIBLE DEATH. That is no joke. But what about Charlie?

    They recommend:

    Know your rights under Cal/OSHA (Employers AND Employees)


  3. Karmafan

    I see over at LIB some girl is pulling a Mr. Marcus and faking her test. This would be a good reason for wearing condoms.

  4. MikeSouth

    Ive been on the faked test story for a week but cant find out who it was, the lesser sites named the wrong person/agent. It did happen but no word on who it was…when I find out its a story

  5. mdxxx

    Am I the only one who thinks its a conspiracy? Maybe Stoya was able to seduce a government official, or something, but seriously, the fact that OSHA will only go after Deen, when all the other studios do the exact same thing is hilarious to me.

    You know ya’ll think he’s a rapist, but how would you feel if a former Ex-GF accused YOU of RAPE. Everyone believed it and you were pretty much screwed out of continuing to do what you love.

    It disgusts me how hypocritical some people are. Like seriously, put yourself in that person shoes.

    All these stones being thrown in glass houses.

  6. LurkingReader


    It’s not a conspiracy…OSHA will only act if they receive a complaint. Every studio faces the same threat. Dealing with an OSHA complaint isn’t hiding evidence cuz someone called the cops ….for OSHA you need to prove ya done it 😉

    Let’s go with your assumption that Stoya was full of shit..and/or their conflict prompted the complaint….doesnt matter…unless her claims were work related OSHA can’t open an investigation and if they did his lawyer could have effectively shut shit down with disgruntled worker retaliation process.

    Kink has been putting their ducks in a row aka covering their ass. They had to throw Deen under the bus to prove they done it…aka addressed and remedied a workplace issue. They don’t want to get hit with new investigations while they’re defending lawsuits questioning their on-set consent practices & if they did get hit they needed to be able to say as soon as this came to our attention he was put the fucking door…we don’t condone or tolerate performer mistreatment.

    The citation specifics aren’t listed on the OSHA.gov site yet so no way of knowing the proposed fine amounts for each of the nine violations. My expectation is that none of the violations will relate to Stoya, rape or consent allegations.

  7. LurkingReader


    Right now porn ought to be glad OSHA hasn’t classified HPV, HepC etc as carcinogens and is just leaving them as OPIM.

    They also haven’t faced BDSM as workplace violence …but now you have a hint to why Mark Kernes & Woodhull have their knickers all wadded up over a Collegiate explulsion case. Kid raised a BDSM defense to stalking after a breakup then didn’t dispute that he wasn’t given a clear go ahead/resume after a stoppage…sometimes it’s best not to throw spaghetti at the wall and hope something sticks.

  8. BT

    For those of you keeping score at home, Deen and Kink aren’t the only studios that have had run ins with the condom police. Porno Dan was raided as well and went to condoms.

    I have long written on this site that porn has more to fear from OSHA than LA County. OSHA is already in the business of policing workplaces and has an infrastructure in place. LA County is not set up to do cum duty. It’s an extra expense for them. I truly believe porn dodged a bullet in the recent OSHA hearings and that its temporary.

    Second, for you home gamers, there is a direct line between the lawsuit Vivid, Kayden Kross and that poor deluded male performer brought and lost in federal court. Why, you ask? Because the judge ruled that condoms are a reasonable response to a workplace and public health issue and did not infringe on freedom of speech. That was upheld in the court of appeals. That takes an important tool out of porn’s toolbox, meaning that it cannot argue that its an over-reach by OSHA because what happens on a porn set is protected speech. They’re now left arguing that double anal cream pies with Mr. Marcus and some dude with Hep C are perfectly safe.

    It’s really a matter of how much resources OSHA wants to throw at the issue. Moving porn production to Las Vegas is at best a temporary measure until Vegas realizes it can make money by regulating porn the way it regulates the brothel industry. Or, OSHA gets ticked because porn is trying to duck it in California.

  9. BT

    PS – re conspiracy, how is it a conspiracy when Deen is one of the most visible personalities in porn and one of the most outspoken critics of condoms, more or less claiming that he isn’t going to use them. He was out of compliance. The fact that he hadn’t been fined before is pretty irrelevant. It’s sort of like proudly and loudly telling anyone that’ll listen that you run the same red light at a four way intersection every day at 3 PM and don’t care that there’s a law against it, and then cry conspiracy when the cops put a patrol there who busts you the next time you do it.

    Deen’s a moron.

  10. MikeSouth

    MeantIme It IS a stretch to thInk that thIs happened because Stoya seduced a government offIcIal you CLEARLY dont know Stoya very well.
    Thers an old sayIng….You reap what you Sow. I thInk that applIes to James here. PartIcularly I am gonna stand for Stoya here because I know her well enough to know that scenarIo Is ludIcrous.

  11. MikeSouth

    If it was only Stoya that accussed him it would be different but many girls did and he was known for this on set behavior, I have heard it many times. That is why the rape allegations stuck within the biz, many people saw and recognized it. That said that has nothing to do with the OSHA fines, yes its obvious that Deen was targeted but that was because he is a big fish, probably the biggest at the moment, Targeting him sends a message to the others…if they can get James they can get anyone, thats not a bad tactic, If it were me running that I would do exactly the same thing., cut the head off the snake as they say.

  12. lastnot

    Don’t fuck with Stoya, folks. Hats off to the people who made this happen. If he can’t fail out of porn, maybe he’ll bankrupt himself instead.

  13. LurkingReader


    Keeping a different kind of score here. OSHA.gov makes it easy track their activities. SIC 781 or NAICS 512110 spits out five years by default and ten for more ambitious data lovers.

    OSHA is ticked at porn and has been for a long time. Vivid is just the most recent case with a prominent role in the saga. Deupree was a ball on the field in 2004 when they dedicated a site page to Adult Film. In 2007 the IC paid performer was ruled to be an employee. Since then Fed-ex and dance club rulings have solidified things against porn on the IC/employee issue. They’re still determined on a case by case basis with six different criteria considered, a split depends on the nature of the case and which labor agency is involved which way it goes.

    AIM, LACPH, partner notifications and 2257 cases are playing a role too. Read the full PR every paragraph is a bullet point chess play.

    OSHA notified Deen heard back from him/attorney and let 30 days go by, showed up in court for a warrant and compelled an LA County municipal LE agency to assist them in obtaining the paperwork in the warrant.

    Raid? Looks more like Deen and his attorney sent OSHA a gilded invitation to get reamed instead of being the reamer.

    OSHA Site inspections do not require notice, 30 day records requests are a courtesy. PR spells out how OSHA bent over backwards to accommodate an employer establishment but isn’t taking it dry. Those RAID headlines were a mistake. The parting note about 18 million workers is a less than subtle fuck you …cal/OSHA cooperatively regulates more establishments each year than porn churns through performers. The majority of their complaints are resolved on the spot so porn has become a problem child.

    Before 2004 there was little or no data outside anecdotal hypotheses. In 2009 the CA Supreme Court rejected Duepree’s appeal and things started getting ugly. AHF OSHA petition forced OSHA to consult with lots of agencies for data. As OSHA started gathering data the anecdotal hypotheses gained scientific proof that porn as an industry is placing a burden on gov funded/subsidized health agencies budgets….including AHF.

    There’s a reason franchised food outlets flourished in the US while independents went under left/right. Any idea how much brand names have paid in non-OSHA fines to offset the burden they placed on gov funded health services? Chipotle has spent BILLIONS in one year. Closing down the MA location means no revenue, and they can’t make the four workers pay up to offset some of their ongoing operating expenses.

    Look at the list of rulemaking documents considered for 5183.1. In 2015 thirty or so new & updated documents were created that are trouble for the porn industry. Mark my words petition 557 will not drag out five years. The CDC document shows eight states and a dozen agencies forced to allocate funds to track down, notify, test, treatment and f/u testing on the tax payer dime.

    OSHA is going to welcome APAC to the rulemaking table…they will note the rep in advisory committee minutes and no one will be fooled for a second that APAC is speaking for performers.

  14. Ivy

    @mdxxx Remember we (yes you and I, and other commenters) have had discussions about your misogynist comments on here? We’re not doing that because we’re dicks, we’re doing it because YOU are sounding like a dick. God bless if you ever have daughters, that’s probably only when you will understand.

  15. rawalex

    Actually, I was thinking along the same lines, only in more general terms. The industry has all but blackballed James Deen, from what I understand the only shooting he is doing is with his own production company. The last step towards driving him completely out of the industry would be to shut down his production company or make it too expensive for him to continue.

    My guess (no proof, just a guess) is that the complaints made are in no small part to accomplish this. That his Vegas shoots were also quickly reported suggests someone with insider information is up his ass and working to make it impossible to get anything done.

  16. LurkingReader


    If the industry blackballed Deen they’d be leaving him to sink or swim on his own instead of putting up posts to support him and outright bash LA Weekly and Dennis Romero…that’s just today. In the past week his content and subsidiary revenue producing businesses have been promoted too.

    Kink had to throw him overboard to keep their boat afloat but the industry is doing all they can to toss him life preservers.

  17. rawalex

    Part of the problem is that they want to get rid of Deen for the rough acts problems, but they don’t want porn to get dirty from it. So throwing him under the condom bus is a good way to drive him out of business while not having it be because of what else he did. It’s a very good way to keep porn looking “good” and make Deen look “bad” – and for a small production company, 70,000 in fines is likely enough to kill them.

  18. LurkingReader


    That would work except AHF is claiming credit for the complaint and the ‘industry’ has jumped behind him using the same ole FSC PR playbook.

    It’s kinda funny cuz the more Deen & his FSC/stakeholder supporters proclaim no exposure happened the harder OSHA is gonna push back. CDC sat on the data in that report for almost a year. In the regulatory bitchslap game OSHA is winning.

    The on-set HIV transmission CDC report post exposure testing proved….
    * Two sets..
    * 13 workers…
    * Four diagnosed/treated HIV with undetectable VL
    * One acutely infected HIV with industry standard negative test (six days after exposure/transmission)
    * one early latent syphilis
    * one genital CT
    * one rectal CT
    * one rectal GC

    Those are from set one no tests required the guy with HIV didn’t have symptoms and his test was under 14 days old. Set 2 two days later the guy work three days with symptoms he blew off infecting someone with a three day old test and exposing four more with tests less than ten days old to both acute HIV and rectal GC the industry standard panel didn’t recognize.

    If you’re not looking for GC or CT prolly don’t want to be eating ass on any set since none of them does rectal or oral swabs. Hmm what was Deen saying about no exposure eating pussy?

    If I was working on a porn set I’d swap spit with a HIV+ diagnosed undetectable VL with much less concern about HIV than GC or CT. Oral bacteria is much more effective against HIV than it is against GC or CT.
    Deen has bigger problems than a trail of he said – she said disputes.

  19. BT

    It does not matter who filed the complaint against Deen or whether they have an axe to grind. What matters is whether he was in compliance or not. As everyone who has ever watched a single episode of Law & Order knows, crooks snitch on crooks all the time.

    Give Deen the benefit of the doubt and agree that no on-set exposure occurred. So, what? That’s not the law. Just because he washed his hands before giving me a prostate exam doesn’t mean my urologist doesn’t have to wear gloves before putting his finger up my butt.

    It’s not only irrelevant, as I keep repeating, this is exactly what Vivid argued and lost in Federal Court. One part of its argument was that the LA County law was a violation of its First Amendment rights; the other half was that the testing system worked and therefor there was no reason to require condoms to protect porn talent and the public that might come into contact with them off-set.

    They judge rejected both of those arguments. Porn’s First Amendment rights were not abridged and there was a genuine public health interest in requiring condoms.

    My guess is that if porn had tried to be accommodating in some way rather than continually tell regulators that its not going to comply, they wouldn’t now be worrying about dental dams. Next step – safety glasses on any squirting sets!

    (And, hey, maybe OSHA will answer the question: Do they really squirt? Or is it just pee?)

  20. BT

    Sorry – on a roll. If I were porn, the scariest aspect of the complaint, as described by Deen, is being fined for not using a dental dam. What that says to me as a laymen who admittedly is not privy to anything, is that OSHA is laying down the gauntlet: You want to fuck with us? We’ll fuck with you.

    Don’t be surprised if there are fines down the road for ass to mouth, ass to pussy, and squirting without some kind of barrier protection too. I don’t care how much water someone drinks before squirting or how many enemas they perform before anal, there’s no way to perform those acts bareback from a public health point of view.

    Think of it this way: You’re in the dental chair. There’s a hot female dental hygienist. She’s going to clean your teeth. Before she starts, she takes off her glove and says: You know, I just had my finger up my ass, but don’t worry, I had an enema before I came to work, how do you think the board of health would react? Even if you said to her: Hey, OK by me?

  21. MikeSouth

    BT I had this very conversation last night with a fellow site owner, I wont name names but the gist was exactly as you put it. She asked me how the industry would avoid being targeted as a result of James hubris and I told her we cant, but that this shit happens all the time and I used a parable.

    Years ago I was an expert shot with a high powered rifle, a marksman in any meaning of the word, back then you tested your skill with shots starting at 500 yards, the targets were prairie dogs. They pop up out of their holes and you have a short window to calculate your holdover and windage, in a shot that long accounting for wind is a HUGE factor, in accuracy, even a very slight breeze must be accounted for. Then theres bullet drop. The next step is the 750 yard club then the 1000 yard club, a damn near impossible shot even for the very best. the prairie dog sticks his head up and that’s your shot.

    Now the point here is…don’t be that prairie dog, don’t stick your head up, let the other prairie dogs do that.

    Hey it has worked for me….

  22. LurkingReader


    Know that when it comes to court rules or copyright I’m gonna defer to you. On this I can’t. It seems rawalex & I discussing whether porn had thrown Deen to the wolves was co mingled with OSHA process which is a separate matter all together.

    To OSHA it does matter who files the complaint. OSHA has written guidelines allowing any complaint to classified as harassment or retaliatory, those land just shy of the round can. They are qued for a letter and often get no follow-up if letter is ignored. They’re in qued for follow up until something happens to bump them up, meanwhile if nothing bumps them up new stuff is qued on top of them. Aka ‘no action taken’ if something does happen at a later date.

    AHF filed 16 complaints at one point, some got filed, others got letters sent out and a few were qued for site inspections. It’s a low percentage that get a site inspection. Even lower in CA where the budget was slashed with a gradual restoration starting two years ago. They are still hiring to fill vacant budget frozen positions. It’s extremely rare that OSHA waltzes into a court looking for a warrant but they will if that’s the game an establishment is playing.

    per OSHA there is no benefit of the doubt for Deen on exposure ….it is exposure to OPIM ..other POTENTIALLY infectious material…that’s the extent of the doubt benefit. OSHA doesn’t say exposed electrical wiring WILL electrocute, they dole out hefty fines because it can.

    From OSHA pov STI are no different than any other naturally occuring workplace exposure hazard. Porn is a newcomer to a game that’s been around for over 100 years.

    You’re spot on about cooperation vs GFY with OSHA. They have a better chance allowing diagnosed undetectable VL HIV on sets than any unmeasured reportable communicable health threat. A person with treated HIV maintaining undectable VL has less than 100 viral copies per speck of blood, chronically untreated HIV can be 100k easy and acute (new infection) even more. All sorts of industries mitigate a known threat to or below lowest permissible levels …porn continues to stigmatize HIV as THE threat. Reality is GC, CT and syphilis cause more lost days of paid work and economic harm to performers who aren’t using prophylactic antibiotics to beat the test than HIV.

    LOL on squirt or pee…chatted with an epidemiologist this week. He mentioned bartholin (sp?) glands as havens for all sorts of nasty bacterium.

  23. LurkingReader


    Self-fulfilling prophecy 🙂 the original draft in 2013 had a staggered phase in and oral sex exemptions…lots of wiggle room for sets making an honest attempt to protect workers. The rulemaking document was a serious fuck you, the amended rule making document was a bigger fuck you.

    The 3-2 vote was the biggest fuck you:) now they get to start over and use all sorts of rulemaking documents updated & created in 2015 that they couldn’t use on the old process…they were released after the proposed rulemaking language 😉

  24. LurkingReader


    For the most part government standards are set very low. The 500 yard line is qualified. If you want to go for 750 or 1000 that’s great but they don’t hold it against you if you miss as long as you hit the 500 mark.

    What porn is doing isn’t playing prairie dog so much as saying fuck you the first amendment says I can shoot porn and IDGAF about your standards. Oops….the gov says okay go ahead use our second amendment standards to keep shooting yourself in the foot.

    Cars are a great example of this…the cheapest model meets the same rigid standards as the luxury model. We as consumers may choose to buy the higher end with better safety ratings but if something goes wrong the gov does its standards testing on base model requirements.

  25. LurkingReader


    Gotcha works lots better than the prairie dog who pops up to pitch walnut husks at hungry bears.

  26. BT

    LurkingReader will keep me honest on this, but, while I find Kink’s content despicable, it appears as if they cooperated with OSHA and then appealed the fines. LurkingReader – you’re closer to this than me, but is that the way you see it?

    Deen, on the other hand, appears to have been an uncooperative dick and was treated accordingly.

  27. LurkingReader


    I’m not 100% on Kink cooperating with the standard process. If you recall kink, sx ? (Something) and stagliano all had NR (inspection process id) disappear so even if they weren’t cooperating with the process they were cooperating/negotiating with someone at OSHA behind the scenes. I can’t see that happening if the initial response was GFY get a Subpeona.

    Deen was definitely treated accordingly. It doesn’t bode well for him that his attorney is publicly saying Deen wasn’t served proper notice and OSHA raided his business establishment. That’s the kind of shit that doesn’t go away once you get into a conference room. Also not smart pissing off judges saying they signed a bad faith warrant.

    The thing I think people are missing is once OSHA accepts a petition to make industry specific rules…the gig is up. I don’t think independents understand how much is riding on the way Deen and his backers are playing this. This is wayyyyy bigger than California, 20+ state plans can adopt what ever Cal/OSHA designs as ‘exceeds’ federal standards in expedited rulemaking process. Less than one year…let that sink in if you’re making porn in a state administered OSHA locale.

    “California Emissions” two words that sum up how big 5193.1 is.

    It was initially limited to CA then consumers sued to say it was unfair to pass cost on to them as an add on so all US cars got CA emissions and everyone paid in the higher base vehicle price. Having a car red tagged via NJ annual inspection I was more than a little ticked to learn CA didn’t do annual kick the tires and fill in the check boxes safety inspections. NJ never adopted CA emissions regs because poorly maintained cars were the problem not new cars. Decades later new car window stickers still include ‘meets or exceeds California emissions standards’ NATIONWIDE….definitely a game changer.

  28. LurkingReader


    If Porn is counting on backroom friendships to stall the process this time.. AHF isn’t the only one who can effectively do a CASPA …complaint about state program. Look at the NGO contributors to 5193.1 rule-making documents (there are more through the advisory committee process too) they all have the contacts & pull. Eight states and a dozen health agencies contributed to the CDC report. These are the people who come to the front lines if Ebola or some shit like that breaks out in the US…they aren’t calling bullshit on the studies …they’re ROFLAO at the mope from John’s Hopkins and the one before that from Minnesota who cried “flawed methodology”

    NH not having a state plan is a big deal because they can’t offer an alternative outside the federal rule process. Four State plans have different standards from Fed OSHA…CA, MI, OR, WA.

    Duke couldn’t or didn’t get anything going in OR or WA where she had Planned Parenthood contacts/connections and NFW does porn want MI weighing in on this.

    Those are ugly truths hiding behind many porn poker faces.

  29. BT

    Mike: Keeping your head down is completely understandable. And, while I love to pontificate, in this I really am pontificating, so take it for what it’s worth. Really just guessing here. In Georgia, you can probably keep your head down, as long as Ted Cruz doesn’t become president.

    What I wonder is, are they just bringing the hammer down on Deen because he was a dick? Or are they ready to bring the hammer down on the porn industry and Deen is Public Enemy Number One! They’re using him to set an example and send the message that there’s a new sheriff in town. I have no idea.

    All of that said, Deen’s lawyer can shout all he wants that Deen wasn’t properly served, OSHA had no right to raid his joint, etc. But, Deen has come out with a public statement that flips OSHA the bird and says – Hey, everything you just fined me for? Get used to it, Dudes. I’m gonna keep doing it.

    So, he keeps going business as usual and the next time they serve him in whatever manner Deen’s attorney defines as proper and fine him all over again. And, then they just keep doing it with every new shoot.

    Ask Seymour Butts, Max Hardcore or Rob Black what is the end result of Fighting For The Right To Party.

    Deen is still fighting the last battle, arguing that the government doesn’t have the right to tell him what to film. He’s just plain wrong, his lawyer ought to know it, and it is a direct result of a lawsuit that the porn industry via Steve Hirsch and Kayden Kross filed and lost. Porn did this to itself.

  30. LurkingReader


    Never occurred to me to include a reassurance, your honesty & integrity are above reproach in my book. You’re one of the folks that cause me to question my understanding before I question your logic. That’s a big compliment 🙂

  31. LurkingReader


    Porn definitely did this to itself and TY for using your succinct style to again spell out the obvious lost in my rambling prose.

    Deen is just the latest to say tell OSHA GFY….TIM (treasure island media) another producer of content that isn’t your cup of tea did the same as did Kink.

    Inspection: 312318348 – Lfp Video Group Llc Dba Hustler Video
    March 2011 fined $14,175 April 2011 agreed to $10k settlement

    That’s the difference between cooperating and GFY.

    Quote from summary to 3/2006 20k word thesis submitted to OSHA. “Further evidencing the government’s escalating intent to actively be- gin regulating the industry was a state assembly bill, Assembly Bill 2798 (“AB 2798″), which was proposed in 2004 and addressed adult film performer health and safety. ”

    Hidden in its depths is a bit about Larry Flynt fearing mandatory TESTING. Go ahead search the PDF for Larry Flynt it’s there. http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/doshreg/comments/Maria%20de%20Cesare%20USC%20Law%20Review%20Article.pdf

    This isn’t about condoms or consumer preference it’s about stakeholders not wanting to pay for testing. If they agreed to pay for shared costing testing & treatment ten years ago mandatory condoms and dental dams wouldn’t even be a conversation today.

  32. rawalex

    Biggest problem Mike is that porn is judged by the dead prarie dogs, and not the live ones. We are measured by the Max Hardcores of the world, and not by those who never hit the radar. We are judged by Steven Hirsh offering every celeb who fucks up a nudie contract, by Kim Kardashian and Tila Tequila taking it in the ass, and not by the good and reasonable porn comes that turn out the smut we enjoy. It’s like a bar getting shut down because a couple of drunk fight in the parking lot – and they never even went in the bar.

  33. Ivy

    @rawalex if that’s your opinion man, I really think that’s a stretch. That kind of thinking is also going to hold back people from making the industry a better place. It’s like, well it’s shitty here, might as well keep it shitty.
    No. That’s not really how that works. The fact that people can talk about this openly, is a really good thing. It makes people aware of the issues, and they can work on it as they please. Imagine if you had all yes men in your life. Yes! Everything you do is fantastic and never wrong! But it’s a lie!
    Your life, your work, your industry is what YOU make of it and how YOU define it. You can only really take responsibility for yourself, and if what you do is good (or like, porn good) then you know you did what you were supposed to. If you fucked up somehow, or someone, well then what’s coming is going to bite you in the ass. There’s all sorts of horror stories, but so what? You know what’s awesome? That Stoya could admit she was raped, and a lot of people supported her. And the others who stood up and said, “Hey I was raped too”. That’s awesome, that’s standing up and dealing with reality, not just ducking your head under and pretending what you see doesn’t exist. Like Mike has said before, when you take all the trophies and award shows away, what’cha got? You’re gonna be empty as hell if that’s all how you define yourself.

  34. LurkingReader


    You’re spot on but Porn doesn’t get special snowflake status when it comes to be judged by societal perception or misperceptions. Guilt by association is a double edged universal theme. Spanish friend of mine abuela used to say take care choosing friends…who you choose today is who you will be in five years.

  35. rawalex

    “Your life, your work, your industry is what YOU make of it and how YOU define it.”

    It just doesn’t work like that. Society (and the law) don’t judge the people doing it right, they judge the people doing it wrong, and then assume the rest of us are the same. Porn gets one big broad brush, not carefully painted little dots. Deen, Hardcore, Rob Black, and of course the Two Girls One Cup guy define porn in many senses, and Hirsch and Vivid pretty much do the rest. It doesn’t matter how nicely you play, you are judged by the worst players in town.

    It’s why I think this is being orchestrated to run Deen out of the business.

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