@erik2690

Your point of..they are required to test..proves mine.
Who is the THEY you refer to..performers or producers (aka stakeholder)

Stakeholders ARE required by regulation …to measure, eliminate or reduce to lowest limit…this is the testing you refer to

Stakeholders have FORCED that responsibility and the associated economic burden onto the performers who have no choice in the matter..they decry regulation as an infringement yet infringe on the performers carrying their weight ..every time they say we test and exclude or promote bullshit ideal that performers actually have a choice in this.

Try to spin it anyway you’d like…no political view will reconcile that reality.

Call me a pragmatic Libertarian while I believe in Adam Smiths invisible hand economics that simply isnt the reality and it doesnt mean that a hazardous working environment should ever be acceptable.

As any good Libertarian will tell you, your rights end where mine begin

@jilted
I know of Jim South and World Modeling.

For Miao to be such a respected person in the field of infectious diseases there has to be motivation behind putting his name to the industry other than helping out a friend. To go from being one of the first people to work on HIV in the 80’s to being “Dr. Porn” is a huge step that definitely can taint ones name/image in the medical field.

Doctors can be shady just like anyone else. For instance, there are patents on cures for AIDS. That doesn’t mean that they work by any means, but if anyone uses the processes defined in the patent and they do in fact work in some way then that doctor makes bank if the medicine/procedure is passed.

I’m not trying to infer that Dr. Miao has evil intentions, but working with some of the dirtiest folks out there with data showing where they have been can be his motivation. It removes a lot of unknown variables that most doctors have to face. When a normal patient comes in with some new disease you don’t know if they are telling the truth about who they have been with. In porn you at least have documentation showing part of their journey.

You would also want people to all go through the same process as well in order to have more complete data.

Most doctors can’t get people to pay to be guinea pigs.

“There is no CHOICE in porn.”

I was essentially just arguing with the clarity and forcefulness of this statement. Choosing not to do a scene out of principal of not feeling safe is in any literal sense a choice. While, you are completely correct that the choice shouldn’t be met with negative consequences, there is choice. It seems that if tons of performers were worried and stood up for that idea by not working without a condom, things would change. If you buy that, either they have seeded that principled stand for money or they actually don’t want, need or aren’t as worried about the condom situation as you are. If you believe their public comments, it seems the majority don’t want condoms mandated.

But they aren’t allowed to do what they want. They are required to test. Your argument was about they might not get hired again. Maybe. I certainly haven’t seen proof. I was saying, if someone wants a condom, but does the scene without to earn future pay. That is a very clear moment of them weighing risk and reward. I wouldn’t recommend going against your conscience, but that is a choice. I don’t quite understand comparing porn to most other fields let alone doctors. Porn is much easier. Go to school for 8 years or have sex for a living. Not comparable. This ease of job could conceivably come with higher risks in some aspects. Doctors as a group may have lower STD rates as a group. They also have to watch people die more often and probably have more stress as a group. These are trade offs that were maybe not specifically contractual, but were agreed on when they went into that field. If the top of a persons priorities at this stage in history is to not get STD’s, maybe porn is not right. You may have to take a harder job in some respect that allows for more safety in that 1 area. Overall: 1. I have never seen any proof that porn performers are at greater long term health risk than the general population. 2. I hope in the future performers will feel more freedom to choose condoms without fear of future job loss. I really don’t think you should try to frame porn performers by comparing it to other industries. Maybe sports. I can’t imagine that the average performer lifespan is more than 2 years. Not like most industries or careers at all. Lastly, you might think it some public facade to protect their place in the business, but the majority of performers have come out against a mandate. Rarely have I seen people advocate safety for a group against that very groups wishes. True choice would be optimal, I admit that is hard to do with the way things are set up.

P.s.- To Mike. I’m not of your political belief, but please explain this. How does a Libertarian go from “this industry isn’t running/looking out for safety like it should” to “let’s get a government mandate quick”. Do you support mandated healthcare? In one case a group may get STD’s from chosen sex acts in the other people die from lack of healthcare.

Could you even imagine if this same theory was used in every industry?

Take two workers in any other industry who could potentially kill each other or take a worker who could infect someone else, maybe a patient, with a disease and tell them “As of today, there are no safety regulations. As long as there is consent then anything goes… you have no responsibility to protect yourself, your fellow workers or the public so just do whatever you want.”

Do you realize how immature and irresponsible that sounds? What if every industry on earth operated under your same theory? 90% of the work force would be sitting on the street starving until they were forced to risk their life in order to get a paycheck just to survive.

Looking at the rest of the industrial world, we’ve come a long way in this country…. Workers now don’t have to risk their lives or their health without protection in order to earn a paycheck and provide for their family.

Do you know how many rules and regulations stunt performers have to follow? You don’t really think that guy’s falling from a 10th floor balcony onto the top of a car, do you? Or, that the guy on fire just threw some gasoline on himself, used a lighter and started running around? Or, that window the guy just crashed through was really made of glass? Or, that the blood coming out of a bullet hole to the arm is real blood?
Of course not. It would be much cheaper, much easier and a shitload faster if they just did the scene and sustained injuries, but stunt performers care about themselves and everyone around them so they use fake material to make things safer and they take 4 extra hours to shoot a scene if that’s what it takes to keep everyone safe.

If two stunt performers consented to jump through a pure glass window… And we all know it’s about CHOICE… do you honestly think the producer, director or stunt coordinator would allow them to do that? Fuck no!!!

But, using your theory they should be allowed to because, after all, it’s two consenting adults and they should just be able to do whatever they want because it’s their CHOICE to do so.

As if anything in corporate America is that fucking easy or irresponsible.

@erik

IF OSHA regs related to 1991 federal laws to contain and minimize HIV were followed…it would be free choice to accept lowest risk, no different than many other jobs…coal miners, gem diggers exposed to high levels of naturally occurring earth metals etc..since the industry has refused to even cooperate with these regs and threaten…condoms would make testing go away…no that’s not what standard OSHA regs say…they say..measure, eliminate or reduce to lowest permissible levels…there is no permissible level for infectious diseases..yet stakeholders refuse to implement methods of measure eliminate by exclusion and allow low levels of Treated HIV…then when someone shows up infected..it’s their fault for participating in risky offset behaviors…on set treated HIV are never even acknowledged let alone considered.

That isn’t free choice, that is want a paycheck? Fine well pay you to risk your lifelong health for the benefit of our bottom line btw..go buy a test so we can say you didn’t bring your nasty diseases onto our set.

I’ve heard this argument before but its way too simplistic of a view. You can not choose, legally, to take part in a crime or to be a victim of a crime nor can you willfully choose to assume liability in order to skirt OSHA rules and regs.

You can of course choose but these choices have consequences legally as any person who ever got a click or ticket ticket can tell you.

Yeah…. choosing to do porn is a choice by definition. If the parameters make you feel that the risk is too great, then don’t participate. That is CHOICE.

“60-70% accuracy is decent”. What? Not if you are reporting something as fact.