I’m not alleging that James Deen is or isn’t a rapist, only responding to the thread. With regard to the “why didn’t they come forward earlier” or “they’re feminists who are just out to get him,” two points.

Look at what happens to any woman who alleges she was molested on or off the job by her boss or an executive at a company. They are pilloried and torn to pieces in court. Or, look at what happens to married women who are abused by their husbands – it used to be that a man could not legally rape his wife because they regularly had consensual sex.

Now, imagine the person making that allegation is a sex worker. Heck, you don’t have to imagine it. War Machine is on trial right now for raping and assaulting Christy Mack. His legal defense is that it is impossible to rape Christy Mack since she participated in rough and extreme sex scenes for a living – in essence, he saying you can’t rape someone in their private life if they have been paid to be violated in their professional life. I suppose, that’s a little like someone assaulting War Machine with a bar stool when he’s not looking and then arguing that you can’t be charged with assault for sucker punching a professional puncher.

To the “they’re just feminists,” that argument presumes that Stoya or the others have something to gain by making a false allegation of rape. Tell me how exactly they benefit?

I know two things. Businesses do not drop a popular performer like a hot potato because of a couple of news stories – most of the world has no idea who is Stoya or James Deen – unless they think its bad for business to be involved with that performer. An industry just doesn’t turn on a star like that. Where are the tweets and posts from fellow performers and producers in support of Deen? They’re just not out there.

Number 2, Deen has stated that the allegations against him are false and defamatory. Those are legal terms. Deen is a public figure. For a public figure to win a case, they not only have to demonstrate that they were defamed, they have to show quantifiable economic harm.

Usually, that’s the part that’s hard for an entertainer, which is why they sue in England where its not a requirement. I can’t think of another public figure who fits that bill besides James Deen. He’s just been dumped by major sponsors of his work and products. Since adult performers don’t get residuals, he can show how much he was making per month from those companies before the allegations and after the allegations. He’s got quantifiable economic damages. Heck, if anyone can get a lawyer to take this on a contingency basis, it ought to be Deen – a good lawyer could get lots of press and publicity out of this case.

So, Deen should put his defense – and MDXX’s contention – to the test and sue ’em. Put Stoya and all the female performers on the stand under oath. Put all the producers, directors and business people who have dumped him under oath depositions. Bring in the other women he’s performed with, who have not made allegations but have expressed their support and put them under oath. Prove that you can’t rape the willing and that they’re all a bunch of feminists or disgruntled former lovers out to get him. Don’t just tweet that you’re a victim; prove it in court. Stoya and Joanna Angel may not have a lot of money, but Doc Johnson, Kink and Evil Angel have deep pockets.

@mdxxx

you are still going on the “why didn’t they report it when they happened”. You seem to hang onto that like religious dogma; I don’t think evidence matters to you in this situation so the debate can’t really go any further.

Honestly, I appreciate debating with you. I have to say that if you are still going on that line of thinking after all the things that have been said, then you truly lack understanding of the realities of the world we live in, and the complete contempt women get when making legitimate rape allegations, how it can destroy their lives and families, and the reality that they usually have to suck it up and not say anything.

reporting a rape, can be almost as traumatic and destructive as the rape itself. Being a sex worker or porn star only enhances by a significant magnitude. Those are the facts, there is an endless supply of information to support that. If you can not accept that, you are welcome to. I have always felt hanging onto something in spite of overwhelming evidence against it is something religion does and is not healthy for society at large. I don’t know if you are religious however I am using this as a parallel about how hanging onto dogma and ignoring evidence is dangerous.

A lady in the porn industry who is raped is faced with this scenario:

I can suck it up, move on, not tell anyone, and hope that the pain and shame goes away….

OR

I can come forward, lose most of my career, get attacked on the internet, be shamed, called horrible names, have my family insulted, have my real name plastered on the internet by the person I am accusing, and any other potential bad outcomes. All in the hopes that maybe I get this guy, but most likely it gets tossed out of any court because they will consider me a worthless whore who fucks for money and deserved it and should have known better and this would never have happened if I made better choices so this is my fault (intentional long run on sentence).

Most women chose the former and that is why rapes are not reported.

@mdxxx

Let’s play spot the problem asshole and when they crossed the line in the story.

Newbie shows up to new job anxious and excited anticipating the places this could go just like they learned in Suess books only better cuz this place is gonna pay them to show up and go places.

Newbie has been bragging about landing $15 per hour to flip burgers at a place that lists all the rules on the wall next to the color diagrams showing how to make each sandwich.

Rules say wash hands after using toilet causing newbie to expect toilet breaks are part of the program. Schedule says 11a to 5p so newbie plans accordingly arriving on time and arranging a ride for 5:30 to allow a bit of wiggle room.

Three pm comes and goes with out the four hour 15 minute break. Three thirty tries to run to restroom saying excuse me I’ll be right back but boss says whoa WTF you’re not going anywhere. Four pm visions of a piss puddle are getting lost amid smashing the locked back door with the fire extinguisher or bashing bosses head, and dumping hot sauce in the cavity that formerly held a beating heart.

@mdxx To be honest with you, there are a lot of people who think those exact thoughts, like the kind of stuff you posted. I honestly don’t have a problem with that, your being honest.
So without going tit for tat for everything your saying, because I definitely do not want you to feel like you are being attacked, I want you to feel like I’m engaging in a dialogue with you, without judging you ore belittling your statements, cuz that’s just not who I am. Ok?

Typically, people who have thoughts and questions like yours, completely valid, very much from a “common sense” point of view, because they have a narrow range and opinion of women. Essentially your statements are devaluing women, (not attacking you, just being real with you). I’m not asking you to look up feminism 101, I’m just saying that you should know a lot of people who care about the issues you brought up, debate these exact thoughts, counter them, within the regular population and within academia.
As a discipline, gender study evolves with time, and we are past what you call past 3rd wave feminism, second wave being the bra burning and stuff after the 60s.
So as a discipline for gender studies, has evolved, and right now the movement is very much focused on women’s rights (Pay, sex worker= Human being, Political rights, the Right to dissent without being abused verbally or physically, the tolerance and public awareness of LGBT issues, all this stuff is meant to bridge the gap between equality between men and women, to address these issues head on, because men and women are equal, NOT better than one another. Ok, so you are disparaging these women, and basically calling them liars and pieces of shit when they come forward with this kind of stuff. It is that exact kind of thinking that holds back women (and men! because they are vulnerable to abuse too) from telling the truth. It’s these men who hold positions of power, the ability to destroy a woman’s career or reputation, simply because he is a man and other men are likely to believe other men.
Now the push back, and the counter narrative to feminism is to reject that, to be open to other diverse voices. Even people within feminism disagree with each other, that’s not the point.
But the general idea, is when you start attacking a woman because she is a woman or is perceived to be “doing woman things, like bitches do” (not saying you exactly said that) because it is inherently sexist, and therefore should be questioned with an open dialog within the community. Ok I know that was long, but I hope I was able to make you understand where these feminist porn stars are coming from. The point is, we should be able to debate these ideas, pick them apart, and have friendly debates, and be able to counter them, and have respect for each others different opinions.

How do you know that Stoya dated Deen after the incident happened?.. I didn’t read that anywhere.

Very well said Joeschmoe

Look you guys are making it seem as if I somehow condone rape. I don’t condone it whatsoever. There are plenty of snuff films out there that imitate such scenes, even in Japan there are scenes that simulate rape. My point is, actresses are getting paid for these scenes, how come they don’t bring this up until years later like all these women are doing with Deen? I’m sorry but they could have easily stood up and said something years ago. Stoya DATED the guy AFTER this incident occurred. Are you guys going to try and convince me that Deen kept Stoya in this abusive relationship for months before Feminist Stoya had the courage to stand up and say something? Sorry I don’t buy it. I can read people by looking into their eyes and Deen acts one way on camera, and another way off camera.

Both Stoya and Joanna Angel and all these others are just lovers scorned in my eyes.

So now that the PC Porn Police have taken out James Deen, heck why stop there? Let’s go on Pornfidelity and shut them down, because it looks like they drug and party with some of their actresses. Lets shut down Facial Abuse as well, because hey those girls didn’t consent to any of that right?

When you’re 18 and you sign a contract, that is it. You are bound to that contract if lawyers are involved. Thats how many of the young porn girls get duped into sticking around with some lame brain agent. But I digress.

James Deen is not the problem. It’s the entitled brats that currently run porn that think they can have their cake (fuck hot guys) and eat it too (get paid for it). That’s why all the Euro Trash currently dominating Porn continues to dominate it, while America can really only lay claim to Deen, even Canada have friggin Everhard!

mdxxx…

why would James Deen not follow a safeword? Why would any guy continue to do things to a woman when she said stop? Guys like that are wired differently; you make some implication that he must be innocent because you can’t comprehend a guy ignoring a safe word?

Why would everyone stand around and not doing anything? This is porn; you know full well what most of the people think of the girls, and you know full well that nobody cares about anyone else other than their next paycheck. If performer A makes noise about a money making guy going too far, that performer’s phone (or agent’s phone) will get awfully quiet.

Your quote “None of that I’m a hooker so they won’t believe me crap. This is 2015”, needs comment.

That isn’t crap. A porn girl or a prostitute are not believed very often ,and are attacked aggressively when trying to come forward due to their life. YOu can say “well it’s 2015”. I think it needs to be 2055 before this gets through everyones head. Women who sell their bodies are still considered by many to be trash and “deserve what they get”. That is the reality.

Look at all the nastiness towards Christy Mack. She had a face beaten into shattered pieces and there was still a huge swath of people who didn’t believe her, said she deserved it, said he was her fault, and so on and so forth.

This is 2015 yes,however, we are still decades from society as a whole treating sex workers like human beings. We are also still having girls of all stripes being attacked when they make a rape allegation against someone they know. Even if they are conservative people with no dirt on them. A lot of the Cosby accusers have gone through shitty times being attacked, threatened, and all sorts of nastiness on social media. Society is still like this so it is very clear, and very obvious, why the vast majority of rape victims never come forward. It often takes that first one to have the courage to do it, and then the others feel empowered to speak up.

@mdxxx I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on all your points, but of course this being a free country, you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs.
I just wanted to let you know that you pretty much sound like you don’t know what your talking about, maybe your MRA I’m not gonna judge.
Feminists don’t go around baggy clothes, that….look I don’t even know where to start with that.
But it’s ok, you can keep on truckin with that thought. Just know that you have view about women, feminists and feminists porn stars that do not align with reality.

@mdxx Why wait this long to come forward??? Why don’t you ask the same question to all the women Cosby raped???