I don’t have a list of board members (past or current) in front of me but with normal turnover rates a five employee business might have 20 total people that have worked for them in the past 20 years. I have to estimate because I don’t have a source that can give me that answer. Three out of 20 is a high number when we are talking about sexual coercion or harrassment, especially when the coercer or harrasser is the “victim’s” direct supervisor.

@mharris

Lmao…not sure when kernes joined but aside from him do you have a clue how many employees and board members have come and gone from the FSC since Douglas started over 20 years ago?

His pattern of sleeping with contracted CEO only shows ostrich on part of revolving volunteer board members who would counter any organizational negligence claims with absence of CEO complaints while they were busy pursuing pressing board business. If it isn’t a written motion or in the minutes it didn’t happen.

I think a history of a board chairman (or whatever the fuck Jeffrey’s board title is) fucking three different employees over ten or so years is beyond negligence and likely goes into what you describe in your last paragraph — essentialy it sound like it may be a you fuck me or you are fired situation. Therefore the board is liable just as you say in your example of holding back a paycheck until the harasser gets his dose of pussy. The chances of three different employees fucking the boss in an organization that probably only has 5-6 total employees at any one time voluntarily is almost nil, even in porn. I wish I could prove such a situation but that is what I strongly suspect from what I have read lately.

@mharris
“I did not mean to say that Mann’s wife did anything wrong. Unfortunately sometimes when a lawsuit gets filed everyone in management gets sued including the board members.”

Saying a new widow needs to worry about assets with respect to her deceased spouse having volunteered on a Non-Profit Board is fear mongering bullshit that has no basis in reality! With or without insurance the Mann’s personal assets have nothing to do with the FSC.

Non-Profit credit unions that go after a contracted executive or Board members personal assets only do so because they are forced to chase misappropriated assets as part of criminal or insurance process. I’ve mentioned that my first banking job was a small S&L which was of course beholden to a board.

What you’re describing is a convoluted FDIC situation vs Non-profit reality.

“Legally a board member is personally liable for who they hire in the boardroom, that is an exception to the corporate veil.”

Talk to a real lawyer before you spout this kind of bullshit. Never once in six lawsuits where I’ve been subpoenaed as a Board Member was I ever placed in this position. When insurance company sued charging collusion they asked about our vetting and hiring practiced but never hinted at holding any board member responsible for post hiring, board election or appointment behavior. When board got sued for damages the only assets at risk were the organizations who then turned around and sued the hired office secretary that embezzled the policy premium as well as additional funds found with internal audit triggered by lapsed policy.

If a sexual harassment suit is filed against the organization it would take more than negligence or playing ostrich for any board member to even be named as a personal defendant. It would take something like holding the contracted employees paycheck in hand saying you can have this when he’s done fucking you…not very realistic.

I did not mean to say that Mann’s wife did anything wrong. Unfortunately sometimes when a lawsuit gets filed everyone in management gets sued including the board members. Yes, it wouid be handled separately from the divorce but if Diane goes that far and claims she was coerced into a sexual relationship with Jeffrey I suspect a sexual harassment suit against the FSC would be forthcoming, since the board hired Jeffrey they are technically liable, including Christian Mann. Legally a board member is personally liable for who they hire in the boardroom, that is an exception to the corporate veil. Luckily we weren’t sued (although we were threatened with a lawsuit once) but I dealt with the issue of corporate officers and board members possibly being sued at a couple of credit unions I worked at, we purchased insurance for people affected to protect them (and me) in such cases.

I do know heresay and gossip are not admissible but that doesn’t mean the court won’t subpoena Mike to attempt to force him to reveal his sources so the court can force them to testify (where it would be admissible), I know of several cases where journalists have done jail time for refusing to reveal their source of information and Mike has already said he won’t reveal his sources of information for anyone. I hope that clarifies what I said earlier and that I haven’t drank anyone’s “kool-aid” on this.

@mharris

Was thinking more along the lines of hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and despite being privy to more than a few of these situations no lawyer or judge has ever tried to subpoena me for verification as it would be hearsay or gossip. I have been subpoenaed as a NPO ex-com member who developed policy and procedures to offer direct testimony limited to that function and how we handled inurement and what amount was discovered to be embezzled. In that case the wife was refusing to pay taxes or accept any potential liability related to misdeeds by the hubby so the NPO was dragged in to estimate unreported revenue he helped himself to. In another situation as treasurer was called to testify as to internal audit results but not one word about external results which were left to CPA. In one of those I was also asked how if we were aware of the affair between a BOD at Large and CEO…not until his wife showed up at BOD mtg and literally dumped ice water over BOD member shouting she was a home wrecking whore. Expect based on the questions and later gossip that she thought it had been a long standing deal and he asserted it was isolated incidents..either way..Never was there a concern that our personal assets were at risk because we volunteered on same board.

Whoever poured that kool aid into your mind is either very mis-informed or having a grand time laughing their ass off because you’re repeating it.

For one of the cheaters to chase a deceased members assets those assets would have to be FSC assets and the only way that happens is if they were aware and part of the shady dealings to know about it. That would be handled separately from any divorce proceeding. Seriously doubt that Christian Mann’s widow is worried about anyone from the FSC showing up for anything beyond a computer- printer or similar and any records he maintained at his home but not his personal assets.

As to FSC playing ostrich…lawyers are frustrated everyday by clients out of court activities hampering their in court efforts. Stuff like playing tug of war with kids or property..participating in escalating DV etc are just a few…none of that equates to personal risk to fellow board members and it’s doubtful a blogger would be subpoenaed to source material in a divorce situation unless the wife were saying she became aware of affair via a post…which isn’t the case.

Lastly…lots of NPO have been harmed and eventually forced to fold via playing ostrich and never had a single moment in a court ..civil, criminal or otherwise via dissent and fear …mostly because of stupid shit like people saying stuff like you did about Mann’s wife…she knows she doesn’t have to worry but other folks might not…while they’re wasting time on that crap they can’t deal with other more relevant and pressing matters.

I have to agree with you here, Lurking. That is shocking, I know. From what Mike has said here on this site I expect that a break-up or even a divorce is coming between Diane and her “wife” (the divorce part assuming they are actually legally married, gay marriage is legal in CA now and has been for over a year so it is a distinct possibility even though unmarried gay/lesbian couples refer to each other as husband and wife even though they are not legally married quite often). If they are truly legally married the wife could make Jeffrey her star witness and he will be under oath to “tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help him God”. Assuming Jeffrey isn’t willing to lie under oath (possibly forcing Mike South and possibly others with pertinent information into testifying via a subpoena if he does lie, with Mike’s ironclad policy of not revealing his sources that could put him in jail for contempt of court if a judge pushes the issue) he will have to admit to fucking Diane, essentially making her wife’s case and causing the wife to get at least half of everything Diane owns as penalty (as CA is a community property state) and alimony. Diane could become the star witness in Jeffrey’s and his wife’s divorce trial as well if it goes that far. That doesn’t include any liability the FSC and even individual board members could have in all of this, especially if Diane claims in court that she fucked Jeffrey in order to save her job and financially support her wife to mitigate damages in a divorce trial. I know most organizations carry insurance to indemnify both the organization and the individual board members in such an instance but this is the FSC, you can count on them to do the dumbest thing possible at least half the time and that in this case would be not carrying insurance for this sort of event. If this isn’t an “oh fuckity fuck fuck fuck” moment for the FSC board members I don’t know what would be. This is also a problem for the late Christian Mann’s wife (Christian was on the FSC board) as likely inheritor of his estate because this could create liability for said estate up to everything he left behind when he passed on.

Pissed off spouses have a way of fucking up even the best ostrich imitation.

Lawyers know all the creative ways scorned women can act out their fury 😉

Off subject but what is the difference between Jewish coffee and the stuff we drink in the Midwest? 🙂