James Deen came out in an email interview on The Daily Beast I hesitate to recommend clicking the link because it is LOADED with ads that wil slow your browser to a crawl but the interview is there and I read it.
To sum it up James basically says that everyone is lying, he was never aware that anyone was uncomfortable and that he is totally baffled by these allegations. He calls Joanna Angel a liar then says how much he respects her.
He even claims that he fired Evil Angel over a year ago, they did not fore him
The best way to sum up the whole thing James Deen ” I dindo nuffin”
Another thing that was very clear, James didn’t write the answers he had a publicist that did it, a pretty good one.
I would have been more inclined to believe James had the thing at least had a hint of honesty in it
I still say at this point that James controls his own fate from here forward.
78 Responses
James Deen Classic Dindo Nuffin https://t.co/oFMFnu1drr
If you substitute the name “bill cosby” for “james Deen” and take out the words “drugged” before “rape” , these stories are eerily similar. Right down to the response by the male in question and the attacks on all the women.
If I recall, with Cosby, the first few accusers were attacked aggressively in the online world; nasty posts, name calling, shaming, you name it. It was only when the numbers got so incredibly large that the attacks on the women slowed down and people started to accept what Cosby is.
Same thing happening here; the first few girls are getting hammered for it. Unless we get 20+ girls coming forward, it may always be this way.
Many people need overwhelming evidence, and then still ask for more, before budging on a belief.
This also reminds me , sadly, about how many men in our society still get aroused at the though of a woman being hurt or suffering, and think they are all “lying whores”. We here in North America love to throw rocks at Saudi Arabia for their women’s issues; are we really much better over here?
Funny you mention that if I am not mistaken they have the same crisis management publicist…
RT @MikeSouth1226: James Deen Classic Dindo Nuffin https://t.co/oFMFnu1drr
Imagine being the person who wants to make his career “crisis management publicist” 🙂
Deen appears to be going for the ignorance is bliss defense, one that sort of says “while, nobody complained to me!”. The problem here is that for someone who is into rough sex, the threshold for what you hear may be very much higher than the rest of us. What he considers normal sexual banter and actions may be for others the sign of a girl struggling to get free and to stop what she considered an attack.
He may end up being the classic case of a guy who will always feel he is innocent, no matter what, because by his standards, he Dindo Nuffin.
Open letter to James Deen:
Hey Asshole. Rape survivor here. YOU don’t get to decide if these women were raped. You are so lucky you have a beautiful woman to protect you, and hide behind. I hope you had a lot of fun calling these girls whores behind their back (and to their face I am sure), and joking with your comrads how stupid they are, and how much they deserve it. You actually, don’t even deserve the term alleged rape. You did it. You know it. And since the FSC controls APAC, you are letting every woman in the industry that you raped or will rape them, for fun and shits and giggles. And that future women, haha your gonna be raped too. And then they will cover it up, by saying you are too stupid to know your rape, isn’t rape, because Deen is the master of kink and HE knows what is kink and not rape. Your rapist friends will follow the example you have lead.
Hahaha you asshole. I hope these girls burn you into the ground. But seeing how quickly you released a tasteless, offensive interview, I’m sure you will do that for yourself. You could have taken the high road. But nah. Not what ya decided to do, because you feel safe. Feels good. Doesn’t it? To be safe? To know that your most powerful friends make you feel safe? I hope they rape you too.
Signed,
an asshole rape survior
@joeschmoe actually crisis management publicist is an interesting job. I job shadowed a lady who was a crisis management publicist, and she was seriously the embodiment of a badass. You could walk into a room and feel her presence immediately. She said her toughest time was during 911, and taught me that no matter what, when you have to release an update to the public, you must do so as soon as humanly possible, and that you cannot lie. If you feel inclined to lie, don’t. She said, everything you do must be timely, and fact checked, and every mistake undermines your credibility and career. Amazing lady, but even she had to admit, it wore her out.
ETA Part of her crisis management was deal with information regarding the planes that hit the twin towers, and airport security.
I maintain the position that Deen is not into “rough sex” or anything sexual. He is into “hurting and degrading people”. I feel there is a big difference there and that is not getting enough play.
Fucking a girl hard and smacking her ass and pulling her hair and tying her up and all that is not what gets Deen off. He gets off on the girl wanting to escape, saying no, saying stop, being injured, and generally just making them feel as awful and helpless and traumatized as possible. There is nothing sexual about what he does (even though sex happens as part of it).
A very simple illustration of this difference is pinching hard the nose of a girl who just had nose surgery. That is not “rough sex” or “bdsm play”; that is just a guy wants to screw with your emotions and make you feel helpless and traumatized and to intentionally hurt you.
Just like Cosby.. what he did was not sexual…. yes, he had sex with them but his actions were not sexual.. they were to humiliate and destroy.
I just feel that rough and intense sex and what James Deen seems to keep doing over and over again are distinctly separate and he keeps hiding his actions under the term “rough sex” as a way to legitimize what he is doing.
Just another two cents to throw into the pot.
James is the chosen one for all the “jews” in the porn industry.
After three ‘problem w page reloads’ the Beast article finally loaded.
This interview nixed ANY and EVERY benefit of the doubt I’d harbored that Deen pissed someone off and they didn’t take it well.
His words not their accusations convinced me as a juror in the court of public opinion that he is a menace to society in or out of porn. He sealed his fate.
related article up top has one comment sums up how long the writing has been on the wall for Deen…
http://www.mikesouth.com/reader-mail/a-reader-takes-james-deen-to-task-7328/
Viniko Richmond
March 11, 2013
he will probably join Mr.Marcus in the unemployment line
Not linked as related is this tidbit
http://www.mikesouth.com/vivid/farrah-abraham-james-deen-a-backdoor-round-2-9220/
She didn’t name Deen when she disclosed the rape. It wasn’t a PR stunt.
Look at what he says about the women. Then look at what he says about Kink. This guy lived at Kink for five years, they create a unique environment, he was under their control and working at their command…it’s all their fault. He makes Lindsay Lohan look stable upright and reliable.
RT @MikeSouth1226: James Deen Classic Dindo Nuffin https://t.co/oFMFnu1drr
It’s everyone’s fault but his. He was just following orders. Just doing his job. Someone please sue him! #jamesdeenrapist @MikeSouth1226
And @kinkdotcom should be ashamed of themselves. They enabled this criminal for years. They knew. They know they knew. @MikeSouth1226
There is only one person who accused James of drugging and that is Farrah Abaraham. You guys know who Farah Abraham is right? If you look up Attention or Fame Whore in the Dictionary there would be a huge picture of Farrah smiling. The story is made up concocted.
When you mix business with pleasure you get tied up. Stoya started this whole thing because Chanel Preston was dating James Deen her ex-bf and moving in with her. Doesn’t surprise me. Women have this mindset that if they don’t get their way they ruin. They are irrational beings in general when compared to their male counterparts. This is apparent with Stoya as is all the accusers making these claims against Deen.
Many people are going to stand up and kiss these porn women’s feet for coming forward. Just like @Mikesouth is kissing Brett Rossi’s ass even though she knowingly had sex with someone who had HIV after knowing they were HIV+! I don’t do that. I am brutally honest, maybe to a fault. Women are irrational, stupid beings, that make the worst decisions when compared to men. It’s not even close. They manipulate stories and somehow convince themselves that those stories are in fact true.
I will conclude by saying I thought this interview was very scripted, but revealing at the same time. James Deen himself said it. He is the horny guy next door. He doesn’t give a crap about what you think, what I think or what anyone has to think. He’s anti-PC. And I respect the hell out of him for that. I hope he finds success and is able to dodge this public outcry created by a couple of crazy females.
The horny guy next door is James’ porn persona, but like all the porn girls in interviews say they are horny all the time, masturbate five times a day even on days they shoot, and are down for anything at any time. It’s an act because that’s the fantasy. Anyone whose been in a long term relationship with anyone, no matter how intense at the beginning, knows the intensity wears off, you settle into a routine – one that accommodates sex in between all the other stuff you have to do to make a living and keep a household in tact. My favorite line from the TV show Justified – Women need a reason. Men just need a place.
Long story short, I think you’re confusing what James puts out there on screen and interviews with who he probably is as a person.
I think the real question is – and Lisa Ann hints at it in her piece – is that over time, after having to get it up 3 to 5 times a week for weeks and months on end and having to do so with whatever naked individual is there in front of you, whether you’re attracted to them or not, means that male talent has to find some way to constantly stimulate themselves to get the job done. And, as Lisa Ann said, that often means rough sex – taking the intensity level up.
The question is, do these guys also reach a point where its the same at home in their personal lives and do they begin to confuse their porn persona with their private lives, and the women they’re with at home with the fantasies they’re supposed to portray on screen.
Since everyone likes to compare porn performers to athletes, the “I didn’ do nothin'” may be what we saw happening last year – and has probably gone on forever – with pro football players and their significant others and kids. They’re paid to bulk up, get strong, get fast, get mean, and punish people on the field. Sometimes, its hard for them to turn that off at home. And if they do go overboard – punch out their girlfriend in an elevator and drag her out like a caveman – the first reaction is: WTF? I didn’ do nothin’.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bret Easton Ellis helped put these responses together for him. Ellis and his boyfriend are in lust/obsessed with deen
@mdxxx you have some twisted views about women.
@laura yeah they are, and when you put it all together it isn’t pleasant for women he may date. However, I like that this blog allows people to say it and it isn’t deleted.
@BT Good points. He is not the “horny guy next door” and never was. Horny men want to have sex, they don’t want to intentionally hurt and make people feel like garbage. I made a post discussing the difference between someone like Deen and rough sex. There is a difference and he is hiding under that term.
I understand Lisa Ann’s points about a porn male getting desensitized and needing rough things to get it hard. This is common and we know that. However, needing rough sex is different than deliberately wanting to hurt someone and make them feel like the worst person in the world. As I gave as an example, rough sex may be pulling hair or slapping the ass or fucking hard; it is not pinching hard the nose of someone who just had surgery. That is not sex, it is abuse.
Deen (allegedly of course), is an abuser and gets off on abusing women. There is nothing, just like with Bill Cosby, sexual about it. I also know full well, that this kind of thing does excite and thrill a lot of men out there; and these stories that are coming out about Deen are exciting and thrilling a lot of men out there.
It is actually true that he left Evil about a year ago. All his recent releases are distributed by girlfriends film and are not under the Evil Umbrella. Just look on any major DVD/VOD site.
@mdxxx Oh brother, you have no idea how much it would secretly delight me if you were actually James Deen under a pseudonym. Unfortunately, I doubt we are all that lucky.
@mdxxx
I’m not buying this started over a pissed ex. I think putting it on her makes it easier to buy the Kink made me do it crap he spewed too. Me defending Kink would prolly make Acworth jaw drop if he read it.
Kink is a unique environment but it isn’t a total free for all no holds barred eat shit situation a performer could expect to find working with Max Hardcore. Kink nor the others risked a breach of contract over a disgruntled ex and you can bet they won’t be coming out throwing stones the way Deen did against Kink in that interview. The closest they’ll come publicly is saying that they couldn’t ignore the pattern of allegations so they’re taking steps to clarify communication to ensure performers limits/consent boundaries are respected at all times. This isn’t about Deen to them, it’s about their brands and their bottom lines and he had to go because his name/brand became a liability to them.
I hope you expect people to take sides and rip you to shreds if you ever find yourself looking for support cuz someone royally fucked you over.
James Deen is the king of all porn jews in the industry.
Don’t believe any of those lying cunts.
Bitches lie.
Its all CYOA on both sides.
I know Mike does not like to nerf speakers here Ari but I think its about time he puts a muzzle on you.
Trolling a porn blog….. interesting choice of how to spend your time
@lurkingreader May I suggest using a browser extension? For whatever browser you are using, use that browser name and the term “ad block plus” in google. You will find what you need and it will help a little bit with speed. Sometimes the pain in the ass loading times are due to advertisement banners. In addition, it will help keep you safe online. Sometimes those ad banners are infected with bad things that make your computer slow, and then you have to disinfect it. Good luck.
@dodogoodman I know all of this makes me suddenly worried for Lindsay Lohan, whom I never cared for or had an ounce of sympathy before. If you go back to the NYT interview that Bret Ellis gave in regards to Lindsay Lohan on the Canyons, you will see Ellis and Deen tag team Lindsay in the blame game. Very reminiscent of the kinds of things people would say about a troubled porn starlet, isn’t? She’s drama, pain the ass to work with, drug user, all that.
@karmafan Actually I have to give Fake Ari a bit of kudos here. This time Fake Ari is actually part of the conversation by satirizing Deen. Dunno how @MikeSouth feels about it, but that’s how I see it.
@Ivy TY for suggestion & Ill ask tech guy when I’m recovered from his latest effort to show me how simple it is. I know he turned off ad tracking and set cookies to dump which seemed like a good time to make a batch of oatmeal raisin.
I really do try but it might be time to accept that this one of those things I’m truly better off outsourcing. Doesn’t matter how patient the techs are cuz my head is off bee bopping to the rain is gone and wishing all those words were like wipers clearing up my windshield in a midday Florida torrent.
Through four different batches of cookies he’s rattling off stuff & I’m hearing gooey Apple, jumping jack Flash, strolling hand in hand, Mickey holding his banner high high higher fuck you developer pissing matches heigh ho heigh ho dopeys diamond scratching out lines of code like its a choreographed football cheer script …and I’m busted again. The glazed over eyes must be a dead giveaway cuz he had no love for my proud accomplishment of never using the CD tray as a retractable cup holder…he wasnt the least bit impressed that once upon a time I waded thru computer shopper catalogues when my kids weren’t using them as booster seats and managed to pick out an amazing combo of stuff including a graphics card with it’s own memory to hide inside the ‘you build it’ custom MICRON system c1994.
His head started bopping to the tune he’d been rapping his knuckles & tapping his foot to all day so I didn’t need to wait for glazed over eyes to know he needed another hand iced sugar cookie. Then he asked for a post-it and wrote a reminder to hit the off button at least once a week.
I’m chalking this one up to some sites aren’t tablet friendly especially if Wilma Flinstone is trying to drive the thing. It’s enough to make a girl cry if it weren’t so comically pathetic.
LOL. Well. Ok. But don’t forget about self fullfiling prophecies. Take your time. Relax, ask questions when you don’t understand. Repeat back what you learned in your own words. Outsource all ya want, I do it all the time with impossible tasks, but some things honestly, require an open mind without self judgement. Deep breath. It’s just google, click and download. ha.
Sure go ahead LOL 🙂 I like Mary Poppins and one of my favorite things is the wisdom of a spoonful of honey makes the medicine go down.
” Deep breath. It’s just google, click and download. ha.”
ROFLMAO sure I like doing that as long as I’m googling policy, dockets and endless associated ancillary stuff sprinkled like dandruff all over the net I can click & download all day long but NFW am I going near tech shit.
Tech guy tells me Ad aware from the developer site is a good thing ….too bad I didn’t know downloading it from a third party site amounts to saying yes to soft lava, and trying to fend off some massive magma stockpile spewing red hot lava all over my system like it doesn’t give a flying fuck that I deselected the yahoo crap they offered. Tech guy still opening cabinets looking for the crap stowed away here there & who knows where behind various windows. Then we have Apple…all I know is that cloud shit is raining all over my parade cuz of some malicious crap that hitched a ride on the bumper of some fine vehicle from the App Store.
Ahhhhh nice cleansing breath as I savor the nectar of humor tempering the bitter pill of embracing my limits as a good thing.
@lurkingreader your brain is as busy as a barrel full of monkeys. But hey, most of us learn trial by error. As long as your getting better a little bit each time, remind yourself to pat yourself on the back.
@Ivy
I like that as messed up as she was at the time Lindsay still had enough sense to send Sheen packing with his offer to rescue her.
@Ivy
That’s what I’ve been telling you. Patting myself on back for job well done learning the error of my ways attempting to figure out this tech shit. Going near that is like trying to find order in the chaos of Richard Scarry BusyTown. 🙂
I’ve waited awhile to comment because I wanted to really digest all of these developments before forming an opinion.
Predictably, there has been quite an outcry about the need to believe women who claim rape and why does it take numerous women coming forward for them to be believed, etc.
I think there are many legitimate reasons to be skeptical of these situations, in general.
Firstly, there have been many instances where a claim of rape has later been proven to be untrue. The Duke lacrosse team case comes to mind as the most prominent example.
Secondly, we have a criminal prosecution system for a reason. If someone claims rape months and years after the fact, I think it’s legitimate to ask, “well, why didn’t you say something? Why didn’t you press charges way back when it happened?”
After all, since we have a criminal justice system which presumes innocence until proven guilty, how can someone reasonably be expected to gather evidence of innocence months and years later? It’s almost impossible.
I notice a pattern of women who automatically side with the alleged victims because they were raped themselves, and that worries me. What happened to you is tragic, but it has nothing to do with the present situation and you shouldn’t assume that because something happened to you, it must have happened to someone else.
Did Deen do it? I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I’ve never particularly cared for his brand of porn and I’ve often thought he’s a bit creepy, but hey, lots of guys in porn are. Steven St. Croix can be pretty rough. Harry Reams was pretty rough. Herschel Savage is pretty rough. That doesn’t make them rapists.
One thing I found interesting that I haven’t heard anyone else mention is James Deen’s blog. If you look at the entry for 11/19/15 (written before this story broke) he talks about returning to work for Kink and he specifically talks about how he used to do a lot of work for them, but how it stopped for about a year when a whole bunch of directors suddenly left.
Something doesn’t smell right about that to me. Why would a bunch of directors all leave at the same time? Why wouldn’t the new directors continue hiring Deen? Why would he basically not be hired by Kink for about a year?
I feel like there’s more to the story…maybe someone else more knowledgeable could shed some light.
Anyway, just my two cents on the whole situation. While it saddens me that a number of women have come forward to claim that they were raped or otherwise violated by Deen, and while that certainly doesn’t look good for him, I do think it’s legitimate to ask why they never pressed charges or said something earlier.
That’s not “victim blaming,” because to say it is assumes there is a victim.
@normalandsane I thought about googling rape statistics from very well known and credible sources like RAAIN and Amnesty International. But then I realized it wasn’t worth it. Because you don’t look at rape in the big picture, you for sure, are thinking about rape in a small way. As it focuses on Deen, Cosby, or anyone high profile.
As if, in a court of law, even by today’s standards. could be fair to rape victims. It’s not. Why is that hmmmmm?
Let’s break it down:
1. When victims come forward, they are often told they were not raped (by someone who wasn’t there of course) and that hay….you were raped….maybe you could have prevented your own rape.
2. Rape knowns no gender bounds. It knows no age bounds. It truly transcends all industry, and all social classes. It happens, because unfortunately thats the real world we live in.
3. The Islamic State rapes women. Should you not believe a rape survior from the Islamlic State until a court of law? Should you believe them only if there was a witness to a crime? All countries have rape. All genders have rape. If your male best friend was raped, should you believe him only if there is a court trial? Should you believe him only if he can corroborate the facts with a witness? What about your daughter? Your wife?
4, Did you know that as a man, you are far more likely to be raped yourself, than for a woman to lie about rape?
I will conclude this by saying there are always more facts in every crime, in every mystery. You can chase ghosts all you want. With all due respect sir, the reason why rape victims believe other rape victims, is because they personally know all the bullshit that comes with rape. I would love to explain more, but the Deen rape situation as read on Mike’s blog, pretty much explains it for me.
If you would like a friendly debate that involves me googling statistics and scholarly sources on rape, I will peruse every data base and academic search engine I have access to for your (and my) own good. Please let me know, I would be happy to oblige. I do appreciate your two cents, as there are many people who have the same thoughts you do. But until I get the go ahead from you to take it to more a academic level, I will keep it light.
@lurkingreader LOL you are so right. I read that this morning and I have thought about your comment all day and its made me smile. TY for that. I would love to be fly on the wall with Sheen and Lindsay, I’ll tell ya that.
@IVy
Good to breakout of my mold once in a while glad it made ya smile. playing fly on the wall for them….maybe if the price was right but if ya toss her mom & dad in there I’m running for the fucking hills…fast.
@lurkingreader haha i know right! What parasites its a shame.
@IVY
“4, Did you know that as a man, you are far more likely to be raped yourself, than for a woman to lie about rape?” iirc that’s a USA/UK stat where a man can seek medical attention regardless filing a report vs regions where men are raped and seeking care for a perforated bowel or ripped sphincter might be a death sentence because everyone knows men can’t be raped so they must be gay or wanted it or whatever crazy ass rationale their regional dictator slapped on their brand of inhumanity.
Some days I want to toss men that say she didn’t call the cops in a cell with bubba and see how quick they are to call the CO or go to the infirmary to be checked out for anything short of a gang rape that leaves them unconscious hemmoraging from their ass which of course everyone believes but who would fucking care?
@lurkingreader Yah so sorry this Deen story makes guys lose their boners right? Uh, uh, it couldnt have possibly be rape! It MUST be something else! Anything else! Please, don’t tell me it was rape because then my boner would feel guilty!
One of my best friends (he is dead now) had sex when he was 21 and his GF was 16 (consensual). Her parents pressed charges and he was convicted of statutory rape and sentenced to 2 years at the same prison where Albert DeSalvo was a prisoner. A few days after getting there he was raped by another male inmate (a huge well endowed black guy) and he spent 2 weeks in the infirmary lying on his stomach. When he got out of the infirmary and healed up he took a pipe and cracked his rapist in the head and he got another 10 years added on the sentence (his rapist suffered brain damage). He never told the guards who raped him because you don’t squeal in prison. When he finally got out of prison he never ever got into any kind of a jackpot ever again. Not even a parking ticket. So men do get raped and they don’t tell anyone either.
Hey there, one of the worst things about internet message boards is that one can never explain oneself with the same nuance as an in-person conversation.
Funnily enough I am an attorney, so that’s why I tend to focus on analyzing this situation in the micro, instead of the big picture. Plus, the whole discussion was on Deen specifically, not rape in general.
I totally understand that rape is prevalent and I think it’s deplorable. In this particular situation, I could see it happening, it wouldn’t surprise me, but I think the accuser’s decision not to press charges or say something at the time goes to her/their credibility. Why isn’t fair to question (not accuse or attack, but just question) why they didn’t say anything at the time? How can anyone defend himself so long after the fact?
It also worries me to see someone tried in the “court of public opinion” vs a “court of law.” A person’s reputation is priceless. It’s so hard to build and so easy to destroy.
Here a person will forever be remembered as a rapist, essentially based on a few tweets and interviews. That’s pretty rough.
I don’t know, hopefully that sort of clears up my thoughts….maybe not…it’s been a long week.
@normalandsane Well Mr. Attorney, I’m very sad to hear you don’t understand people’s decisions not to press charges, go to court,or to the police. I would think that you would hear about that sort of thing professionally from time to time. I am sure that you are a very smart man, I don’t doubt your credibility in the slightest. But I must respectfeully disgree with you, a person’s reputation is no longer priceless. Go sparr with Nik Richie and the dirty and his ninja attorney gringas. (Not like, an attack, but I mean, really you guys would probably like each other and know where both are coming from) With the invention of the internet, people discovered that shameful secrets can spill into the public, and that their lives, careers and happiness can still remain firmly intact.
https://thedirty.com/legal-faqs/
@NormalandSane
Being an attorney doesn’t make you more or less qualified to discuss this situation than anyone else on this forum.
There is overwhelming evidence, documentation, studies and everything in between to make it very clear why people don’t come forward at the time of the alleged rape or assault. Other than being a defense attorney using “why didn’t you come forward sooner” as a strategy, it is a question that really is not relevant today and only matters in the very few (relative to the number of rapes) cases where someone is being falsely accused. You note that false allegations happen, yes they do. However, too small of a percentage to throw everything else under the bus.
Court of public opinion is a sticky one and I understand your viewpiont on that. However, this is a man who is engaging in sex on a daily basis with dozens of women per month. These incidents need to be made public and tried in public because someone may be at risk today or tomorrow. This isn’t a local politician who is accused by a hooker and is unlikely a risk to be raping anyone while these proceedings are going on. His “job” is to have sex, this needs to be known.
While you can rest your laurels on the idea that someone must be proven in court before anyone can make up there mind; that serves a purpose most of the time. In this case, there is too many people, and there were too many behind the scenes rumblings for years, and too many people are at risk , to keep it quiet.
If this stopped at Stoya saying something on twitter, and that was all, then fair enough we should not be tar and feathering this man. However, this is something that has been whispered about for a long time and many women have added their name to the discussion. That can not be ignored. Heck, Lisa Ann’s “defense’ of the man actually confirmed the stories more by acknowledging the man doesn’t know when to stop and doesn’t respect boundaries.
Did he rape Stoya? Only they know that and we will never get “100% proof”. What we do know is there is enough out there that women should be very cautious about dating him or working with him in the sex industry. That is a good thing for everyone involved. It is even a good thing for Deen because now there is no secret about what he is about and anyone can make an informed decision and knows the potential risks.
Can you say Bill Cosby is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Only the very naive or very blind or very personally loyal can possibly say he is innocent at this point. Nobody can take that stance with credibility when there are so many accusers. Bill will never be convicted in a criminal proceeding, that doesn’t mean he should be immune from the consequences.
@normalandsane I forgot to add, that I believe Mike’s blog is a great safe space for this kind of debate. I do understand that it must be difficult to be falsely accused of something, and then being taken to task because the monetary funds aren’t available, or because they don’t take their fifth amendment seriously. I do think its important for skeptics to raise questions, to doubt, or even ask some hard questions, which is also a benefit of the court of public opinion is that its possible to explore all of it, as a community. I think that’s where public opinion can do some good, is the ability to think for one’s self and share that opinion, and some times those opinions create a fertile ground for great articles like Time’s “James Deen and the shift of rape culture”. I will admit I am biased, but so far I have only personally found and read reasonable and rational counter narratives to the rape claim, from Mike’s blog. Not anywhere else, and certainly not that awful daily beast interview that Deen recently gave.
@ivy
For every guy that lost his boner on this Deen story, there is another one that is getting a harder boner knowing what these women went through. We have a long way to go as society in how we view and treat women. Legally we have women’s equality; in the minds of men, we do not. There are plenty of men that want to see porn of them suffering, or talk about women as being revolting whores, no better than someone in the Islamic State who wants to sell her as a bride to the highest bidder. Our “western” society needs to get off it’s high horse about Islam’s treatment of women and look at ourselves. Just look at all the comments every time a woman tries to stand up for herself or accuses a man of rape. Just look at the sheer number of men that want to see bad things done to women in their porn movies.
@JoeShmo – I didn’t mean to imply that my being an attorney made me more or less qualified to comment than anyone else, I was simply trying to explain why I subconsciously tend to focus on minute details. It’s how I’m wired.
@Ivy – this could be world’s first civil Internet discussion.
On a separate but related topic, I’m curious as to your thoughts on how we’ve sort of expanded the definition of rape. I’ve seen many posts on this board of a tactic whereby a producer will start filming a scene, and then say that the contract was for anal when it was never specified. The female talent goes a long with anal so that she doesn’t lose a payday.
Would you consider that rape? The anal is clearly the result of coercion and emotional blackmail. It’s not totally consensual, but she isnt physically being forced either. Is the male talent an accessory?
If you do, would you favor prosecuting these producers, or is it just one of those grey areas in porn?
So why hasn’t James Deen stopped by here to defend himself or explain his side?
@Karmafan, James Deen doesn’t have to stop by here to defend himself. Those porn whores that YOU jerk off too all lie.
Whores in porn lie. Get that through your head. I know that too, My wife lies all the time.
@joeschmoe well said and i whole heartedly agree!
@normalandsane I had a reply that I thought was fun, but I think it got lost in the bowels of word press. Just requested admin help from @mikesouth so stay tight, I did respond to your question and I look forward to what ya think. Would like to know how an attorney countered my points.
@MDXX “Women are irrational, stupid beings” You’re a real charmer. WE GET IT. Enough with the hate.
@normalandsane I don’t believe that we have expanded the definition of rape, although there is a difference between rape and sexual assault. Sexual assault, of course being any kind of unwanted sexual advances that doesn’t result in vaginal or anal penetration. I believe them to both be rape, as a human definition, but of course I’m sure the courts note the distinction in regards to doling out “punishment” (although less than 2% of rapists ever go to jail for it)
I also believe that what you call “sort of expanding the definition of rape” is REALLY, drawing a legal line in the sand and enforcing it. Because this all boils down to sexual consent, not the sex act itself. Because rape is not about sex, rape is about power and control.
It’s horrifying that there are so many accounts of what you described, if there a “surprise” sex act once the film starts rolling, the least the company can do is compensate talent for the extra act. That does not appear to be what happens either.
In my fantasy land feminist trial, where all things must be fair and just and gender neutral, I would consider that rape. And I would hold both the director and the talent who did it, to be liable and held accountable.
Porn should actually be the best place where consent is practiced, due to it being a business. People can negotiate, or recieve flat fees, but there should be some kind of paper work laying around confirming the work that is expected, prior to filming. There are no lists, and model releases, and ect ect. Curiously, the way business is done in theory ought to empower talent. But in practice? Not so much.
It’s like this. For regular ole consensual sex, if I say no to butt sex, I expect my partner to adhere to my boundaries. If something goes in my butt, even though I said no, that’s rape.
Flipping genders:
If you have consensual sex with a woman and she wants to put something up YOUR butt, and YOU say no, and she’s like, but dude you don’t even KNOW about the prostate, and continues to do sexual things to or with your butt, that is rape.
Just being talent agrees to sex work, does not mean its a no holds barrel fuck fest. I mean, clearly that happens, its undeniable with so many coming forward.
And really, for people who are sexual adventurous and exhibitionist, porn ought to be a candy land of sex. Annnnnnd its not. But why not? Wouldn’t the porn be better if everyone was satisfied with the work expected of them? Instead of being surprised, and humiliated that you got ripped off, but you just have to grit your teeth and deal with it? That sucks, and that’s a terrible way to run a business. I’m not saying all porn companies and porn directors do this of course, but enough are doing it that it is a problem.
Huffington Post did a live feed with not crazy feminists discussing the Deen rapes. Was good to watch.
Oh, and I do want to point out to anyone who doesn’t know, there is RAD(ical) Fem, and regular feminists. Perhaps what makes people uncomfortable about feminism, is people assume all feminists are radical. Or even, all female.
@NormalAndSane
Here is my take. You owe Ivy and every other rape victim you assume is lying an apology. You’re either a stand up guy who came to solicit feedback in which case you’ll offer a sincere apology or a rape apologist troll who wont mind being ripped a new virtual asshole with the post I’m writing up to support my position that you owe amends.
@lurkingreader LOL you sweetie. Let’s just remember to be kind when possible, and what may seem obvious to us, may be an entirely new concept to some people. Some people may have literally never thought like this before, or never had any positive role models for this kind of thinking.
@Ivy
It speaks to your character that you spoke up. If he is a normal and sane person what I write will be received in the spirit intended, if he is indeed a rape apologist troll he will wish he never insisted on being fed. 🙂
@LurkingReader: you’re projecting things onto me that I never said. To say that I’m a rape apologist assumes both that there was rape committed and that I’m making excuses for it or minimizing it, neither of which has happened here.
None of us (that I’m aware) were present when any of these alleged rapes took place, nor have any of us personally talked to any of the players involved. That’s why I think it’s so dangerous to make assumptions and draw conclusions based on…what, really? A few tweets and some brief interviews?
Again, would it surprise me if it turns out that Deen did, in fact, commit rape here? No, but I don’t really know enough to form an educated opinion.
@Ivy: Like you, I agree that the “surprise sex act” scenario is rape or at least rape-ish. But the reason I brought that up is because I find it interesting how quickly people rushed to condemn Deen, and yet I’ve never heard a similar response from anyone regarding these scenarios. People call it “slimey” or “sleezy” but I’ve never heard anyone come out and say “what the hell, so-and-so is a rapist for that!”
I’m just fascinated that people were quick to condemn in one scenario but not in these others. Maybe because it’s so prevalent that half the industry would be prosecuted?
Anywho, that’s pretty much it for me. I have read this blog for at least a couple of years now and I tend to comment only extremely rarely. Will probably keep it that way. Everyone be well and not so angry on the message boards.
@Normal
Your words have cast aside any and every benefit of the doubt I tried to harbor in your favor. That is an accomplishment no one has managed in over two years …congratulations.
@normalandsane Do you not see, how your own behavior, thoughts and words contribute?
“yet I’ve never heard a similar response from anyone regarding these scenarios. People call it “slimey” or “sleezy” but I’ve never heard anyone come out and say “what the hell, so-and-so is a rapist for that!”
I wonder why. I wonder why women would be afraid to come forward and speak. i wonder why they would bother coming forward, knowing that they would be called liars and whores. Or that one must “wait” for the facts before one can make a judgement. The woman who was raped has the facts. She could say something. But is it worth losing her career over? Is it worth losing money over? Is it worth being Blacklisted for being “difficult” and “drama”? Only Stoya thought so. It was only AFTER one woman had the courage to come forward.
What is truly dangerous, my friend, is the thoughts and feelings you harbor towards rape, rape cultural and woman. Why is it ok for a woman to be damaged by not being believed? Why is it ok she must relieve her trauma when she is forced to worker with her abuser? But it’s not ok to accuse a man of rape? God forbid he actually did it, Boys will just be boys! It’s porn after all.
Look, the mistake people make about this kind of thing, is they assume that rapists and rape apologists are exactly a certain way. You sound like a decent person. I’m sure you are, and I’m sure you try your best in life. But understand, the way YOU think about the world, the way you interact with it, matters. The same goes for the rest of us.
That’s why this abuse has continued for so long, and why there only have been whispers within the industry until now.
@normalandsane I wanted to point out, that these are the questions that you had that I really liked:
One thing I found interesting that I haven’t heard anyone else mention is James Deen’s blog. If you look at the entry for 11/19/15 (written before this story broke) he talks about returning to work for Kink and he specifically talks about how he used to do a lot of work for them, but how it stopped for about a year when a whole bunch of directors suddenly left.
Something doesn’t smell right about that to me. Why would a bunch of directors all leave at the same time? Why wouldn’t the new directors continue hiring Deen? Why would he basically not be hired by Kink for about a year?
I feel like there’s more to the story…maybe someone else more knowledgeable could shed some light.
I want to know more about this too. With your analytical mind, maybe you can discuss your thoughts with us on this. What directors left? Who? From what companies? Why? These are the questions that I want to know more about. I think you are very right to question that. I think they are very insightful questions. You are welcome to believe that James Deen is innocent. I do not. Let’s agree to disagree. But please, understand that we take the time to write about the industry because we care, and that we think its worth taking the time to write about.
Wow, a lot more posts since I last looked! A few more comments on what I just read…
If your wife lies all the time, best get a divorce… no? 🙂 That probably skus your view of women.
Yes, porn girls lie. Sex workers lie, it is a business of deception intended to get every last dollar out of your wallet. But guess what… .liars can be raped, criminals can be raped…. so even if someone is the biggest liar in the world, a rape allegation still has to be taken seriously.
Some comments were made on coersion and blackmail. This is one of the very dirty and abusive parts of porn that doesn’t get enough play. The vulnerable girl who goes to a scene and is pushed into doing more. As she has “spent the money in her head” already, the guys can push the concept that if she is not interested they will just cancel the scene and no paycheck. Agents are supposed to stop this kind of stuff but it does happen often. I am sure Mike can admit to knowing that happens in the industry far too often. At the end of the day there are plenty of predators in porn and they do try to take advantage of that at every turn. There is a huge market for scenes of girls looking uncomfortable or fearful or in pain doing things they hate. It sells so people try to create that experience.
Whether you are a person who believes there is smoke to this story, or think girls lie and Deen is a great guy, or you get excited at what he is alleged to do…… the best part is this is all gives women confidence that they can come forward and will receive support from many people, instead of staying silent for months or years like all these women have done. That can be nothing but positive for everyone involved.
I do have to say I find it amazing this blog seems to stay relatively civil and we don’t have a need for mass deletions because people are making horrible comments to one another. Open forums rarely can stay away from getting destructive without some form of moderation.
In my experience, people tend to leave a company En masse for one of two reasons:
1) They have decided to spin off their talents into a new company which they have an ownership stake in, so it’s an entrepreneurial move; or
2) the shit is about to go down, they know about it before the general public does, and they form an exit strategy while they can.
Now, to be clear: “the shit going down” doesn’t necessarily mean anything illegal. It could be that profits are down and layoffs are coming. It could be that a new boss has been hired and he intends to clean house. Or it could be bad, illegal stuff too.
In this case, a dozen directors all leaving at the same time is a red flag for me. If it was simply a benign move, you would think those directors would move to a different company and continue to hire Deen as they had in the past. You would also think that their replacements at Kink would continue to hire Deen, but they apparently didn’t.
It’s also noteworthy to me that Deen voluntarily added, that it was nothing bad, they just moved on. Generally, people who feel the need to explain things when no one’s asked for an explanation are hiding something.
So there are multiple red flags here to me.
Also, the fact that Kink would publicly say they would no longer work with Deen after the whole Stoya story broke. Yeah, but Deen just admitted that he’d only worked for them once in the last year, so it’s not like they were really doing anything of substance there.
That’s another red flag to me. Total PR move of getting out in front of a story to hide the real story.
But, I don’t know enough else to do anything more than speculate beyond that. Don’t know any of the names of the players involved or where they ended up moving to.
That’s my analysis. Wish I knew more, but alas, I don’t work in this world. Only (randomly) been on two porn sets in my life.
So that’s why I was hoping that someone with more inside knowledge could flesh out the details. My gut tells me there’s more to this story.
@NormalAndSane
There’s definitely more to the story behind the directors leaving enmasse it’s a great subject and the events included lead me to a very different place than the two plausible options you offer.
The mass exodus doesn’t come across as the ‘shit going down’ in the sense that the ship is going down or frantically trying to stay afloat. This comes across as easing into coming burdens of employer legitimacy by a very visible porn company that can’t slide by unnoticed by regulatory agencies.
The directors who left had other resources to create or existing revenue streams already place so I’m leaning towards ‘the rules of engagement changed’ grew into an organic housecleaning. A few years ago Kink’s cam revenue sharing rates made lots of noise, this time my guess would be increased scrutiny from within to ensure directors were following new rules kink put in place to overcome increased ongoing regulatory scrutiny from without.
The sand grains in the 5193.1 hourglass are running down. Nov. 30th this process moved onto the next phase. Those rules are set its just a matter of time until 5193.1 winds up on the Governors desk for blessing signature or no action and no blessing for the same result …5193.1 in its final revised for will be official. AHF ballot initiative is hitting in less than a year on the presidential cycle.
Kink was at the table creating the new industry rules. They’re staying ahead of the curve making changes now so when regulatory agencies come sniffing looking for compliance with the new rules handing out violations to producers/stakeholders and making a point to keep coming back until it’s fixed…..Kink’s ahead of the curve raking in the dough cuz they had their ducks in a row.
“It’s also noteworthy to me that Deen voluntarily added, that it was nothing bad, they just moved on”
Stakeholders with solid business practices don’t care if directors leave. To them it’s good fucking bye and don’t let the door in you in the ass, with smilies and genuine offers to help if the directors say the word. If you don’t want to be there, they don’t want you there.
Sometimes the insiders don’t want you knowing what they know, or are limited by NDA. Mike Stabile is a Kink spokesperson if you want the company line on anything specific.
The red flag about other directors not hiring Deen could be as simple as he likes to be in charge, or set in his ways with enough means to not have to work for or with directors he might perceive as competition.
BTW Now I’m curious to know if the specific timeframe of the directors exodus lines up with actual events I’m basing this speculative scenario on.
Don’t forget about the on set issues with Cameron Bay. Some of those who “left” may simply have had their contracts expire without being renewed due to problems with that shoot and others that have gotten some regulatory notice. I’m not sure how many directors Kink has at any given time, but I’m not sure I’ve seen a number anywhere on how many “left”. A dozen seems a bit of a exaggeration to me, three or four would seem more realistic, but I don’t think the actual number or names have been noted anywhere.
Toby, I know of three that left within one week — Princess Donna, Marty and Tomcat. The first two had serious incidents on their sets causing injury. I think Tomcat left to retire, $500K plus salary a year (that is an educated guess, I don’t know exactly how much Kink’s directors make) for ten years allows a person to do that. It is notable that Tomcat’s wife Lorelei Lee still directs for Kink but took six months off to take a whirlwind European tour. Kink’s gay scenes director Van Darkholme also took about six months off but is also now back at work.
@normalandsane I agree with you on this point:
“Yeah, but Deen just admitted that he’d only worked for them once in the last year, so it’s not like they were really doing anything of substance there. That’s another red flag to me. Total PR move of getting out in front of a story to hide the real story.”
@lurkingreader You even mentioned something along these lines, that when Kink dropped Deen it wasn’t to be “a whiteknight” but to save their own asses because of the multiple lawsuits, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that you were the first on Mike’s blog to say that.
Aurora Snow writing for the daily beast last year, “Despite signing paperwork and a checklist of dos and don’ts, I was in way over my head. What I thought I was agreeing to felt a lot different in reality. I was groped by hands I didn’t know…It felt more like a party for the extras than a professional scene.” and “After the scene, I did a brief on camera interview about my experience—a standard company procedure. I nodded my head, smiled, and said all the right things. To me, that interview was also part of the job. It’s also filmed before performers are paid, or at least that’s been my experience.”
So when I think about this, in the big picture I look at it this way. Ok so there were some problems with kink in the last few years, which are easily google-able. And then there was the issue of the California condom law, it would make sense to me that a bunch of directors would leave Kink so they could focus more on their own content or their own company. But, 11 at the same time? @lurkingreader I think the cleaning house idea, and getting all the ducks in a row seems like a reasonable explanation, but then I also wonder who came in after. Did they just downsize? Looking at past articles for kink in a google search, I get the impression that “rebranding” was important to Kink, after the public disgrace and cameron bay stuff.
And playing devil’s advocate, I think I would quite frankly, be MORE shocked if Kink hadn’t had any problems at all with lawsuits and models, due to the nature of the work environment.
So, if Kink is ahead of the curve, and the best business model for the industry, as far as safety, profitability, and the amount of work available, why would Kink not work with Deen much for about a year? Clearly they had to have known, even back then what a black sheep he was. Of course he has his own site, his own content, but if Deen is just sooooooo into hardcore sex, well I would think he would be living there every day and just living the best life that Kink has to offer him.
I think for me, what I have trouble believing is how can you make a big company like Kink truly safe? No company is ever going to have 100% happy employees where nothing goes wrong ever, but what is the acceptable threshold for safety violations? And really, whats an appropriate solution? Sex police with rape whistles? Thats a joke of course. To me, it seems like Kink is still trying to figure that out, figure out that balance.
And to wrap it up, here are some interesting reviews about Kink from Glassdoor.com. I gotta say, great if Kink’s cleaning house and making it all shiny, but some of these glassdoor reviews make it seem like something was brewing in Kink, before they dropped Deen.
Apr 14, 2015-Very poor project management. All of the classic problems associated with an seriously unsupervised development culture. Stop burning out or alienating your operations staff, and continue to vigorously and visibly stand by your ethical principles.”
May 4, 2015-“HR is 100% against you. If you have the nerve to go to HR to talk about the way you were being treated you’re almost guaranteed to be fired. I watch over half the staff get fired for absolutely nothing. If you work hard to do your job it means nothing if your complete slacker that never does your job, push all your work on other employees and shows up late you get a pat on the back. The drug usage by staff and models… ”
Mar 16, 2015- Advice to Management The COO is a sycophant.
Feb 23, 2015- They fire and lay off people almost every week. Sometimes for reason, but most of the time it does not seem to make any sense. Moral is low overall because no one knows when the hammer is going to fall on them. In the last 3 months they have laid off or fired a couple of dozen people and had several others leave of their own accord, including the head of HR and a couple of prominent directors.
Mar 4, 2015-Poor leadership and decisions are made out of self preservation and fear. Advice to Management Stop pretending you care about employees and telling them their jobs are “safe” after each layoff. Just own up and tell employees that they are not your priority. If the goal is to make money at any cost, just be honest.
@Ivy
Given the reaction this got her today I conclude Victim blaming/shaming, rape culture etc is a hot topic that becomes contentious even in like minded circles. No way to keep up with the between plays topic of convo but this is the gist of it once the die hard game watchers booted us to the kitchen.
His rebuttal to your reply crossed the line.
He didn’t recognize your disclosures were prompted by the very same current events he says prompted him to cherry pick vague broad statements to support his prediction.
“Predictably, there has been quite an outcry about the need to believe women who claim rape and why does it take numerous women coming forward for them to be believed, etc”
His rebuttal begins with an ambiguous statement that people can’t explain themselves on open comment forums…..is he suggesting
A. we don’t know how to say what’s on our minds?
B. He didn’t intend to jab his red hot poker thoughts about his remote idea into your very real up close personal experiences?
C. Some subtle point we missed cuz we didn’t jump through the Internet for a f2f so he could his listeners body language to hone his message?
D. WTF!
An attorney? There goes option B cuz this forum is an attorney dream welcoming unsolicited written submissions in their entirety unedited, uninterrupted, unformatted too.
Was the attorney claim supposed to validate his initial opinion…still not persuaded. Asserting authority to intimidate? micro/macro deflection attempt.
Back to WTF with “Plus, the whole discussion was on Deen specifically, not rape in general.” He’s got friends here if he defends rapists gifting bubba with bitches using these unpersuasive arguments.
Skipping past silly willy nilly wishy washy we get to but….ordinarily this means the rest is bullshit….in this situation it is the heart of the matter.
“but I think the accuser’s decision not to press charges or say something at the time goes to her/their credibility. ”
For someone claiming to be an attorney advocating reputation preservation this is seriously fucked up.
Has the statue of limitations run out? Is the accusers credibility restored with a police report? Is this limited to Deen/Stoya? All his accusers or rape in general?
“Why isn’t fair to question (not accuse or attack, but just question) why they didn’t say anything at the time? ”
Fair? Her credibility aka reputation is damaged if she didn’t call the cops and if she does she’s the Duke Lacrosse false accuser? He doesn’t even pretend he asking out of curiosity to get a picture of the events timeline. Fair? Where are the questions to the accused?
“How can anyone defend himself so long after the fact?”
Indeed! Or immediately when their credibility rests on arbitrary benchmarks.
“It also worries me to see someone tried in the “court of public opinion” vs a “court of law.” A person’s reputation is priceless. It’s so hard to build and so easy to destroy.”
Then why destroy the accusers reputation in the court of public opinion where they aren’t afforded the protections in a court of law?
By his standards Deen isn’t credible because he hasn’t filed a police report for harrasment nor filed a civil suit for defamation. Why didn’t he do so immediately? Too traumatized? Doing the best he could through the emotional and physical trauma? Coping with an extreme betrayal of trust?
“Here a person will forever be remembered as a rapist, essentially based on a few tweets and interviews. That’s pretty rough.”
Why are his tweets and interviews any more credible than hers? Seems harsh to brand accusers LIAR because you don’t want what they said to be true. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law is a myth. SMH spewing ‘why isn’t it fair’ while tipping the scales with arbitrary benchmarks added to one side.
“I don’t know, hopefully that sort of clears up my thoughts….maybe not…it’s been a long week.”
If he’s really an attorney his week just got longer. He comes across as a CrazyAssTrollingRapeApologist claiming to be a NormalAndSaneAttorney.
A survivor told me to add, this won’t restore you but he hopes sharing it with you lets you know you aren’t alone. Through this I learned and revisited a lot especially the ways …why didn’t you…magnifies trauma. We were all surprised to see how many ways we play into the culture without even knowing it.
@Mharris TY if you know the week or even which month it would be helpful to compare against OSHA event dates.
@Ivy I think the APAC press release was at least in part motivated as white-knight support. First glance reaction to Kink was they were throwing him under the bus, second glance was like whoa this has nothing absofuckinglutely nothing to do with tweets unless seeing them encouraged others to speak up.
bbl got to rescue gravy from hungry folks threatening to crank it up…evil looks aren’t cutting it 🙂
My understanding is their contracts expired Dec. 31, 2014 or thereabouts. They were gone by the start of work in January 2015. Donna still hasn’t found a job to my knowledge (maybe she had a one-year non-compete clause in her contract — although NCCs longer than 90 days are difficult for a company to actually enforce, maybe there is more to her canning than even we know about, maybe she took her (estimated) $5 million plus salary over her tenure and retired — I don’t know but I do know she bought a motorhome and traveled the country for part of 2015). One of Princess Donna’s friends (I don’t recall which one off-hand) claimed she left because Peter wanted the BDSM tamed down and she could not compromise her integrity by doing so (I have a hard time believing that, though considering the Cameron Bay debacle likely went down on her watch, my understanding was she was at least on set that day even though Cameron/Weinstein claim Lorelei Lee was directing).
My understanding is Marty also had an incident with Cameron Bay on his set although it was not nearly as severe as the one on Donna’s He was Peter’s first employee in 2000-2001, he started as a PA but within two years he was directing, he only directed two sites at most and many times only one so he may not have made the money Princess Donna or Tomcat made — my estimate is he may have made $5 million or so over 13 years of directing at Kink.
I am at a loss as to why Tomcat left other than maybe he took the (estimated) $5 million plus he made over the past ten years and retired with it. I would be very interested to know what his reason for leaving actually was.
I don’t know if it matters but Lorelei started her six month vacation in February 2015 and Van Darkholme in March.
Lurk, you can also note that Peter may have decided to not renew their contracts in 2013 when this all went down but could not fire them until their then-current contracts ran out. A copy of Princess Donna’s employment contract would probably be very interesting to read IMO. A million dollar plus buyout (my $500K per annum salary/commission estimate could end up being extremely conservative as Kink directors are paid partially on commission based on their sites revenues, the staff meeting on a documentary I watched on Kink showed that $130K per week gross revenue for a site was considered on the lower end in about 2012) plus hiring and possibly training new directors to replace someone like her could get costly quick! With commission-based salary Kink could also have ended up paying double commissions on their (former) sites (one to them and one to their replacements) if they had been canned before their contracts were up. $130K per week comes to $6.76 million per year, even if Kink only pays 5% of that commissions on that would be $338K per year, I doubt Kink was getting off that light, with salary (Peter said he paid both a set salary and commissions) $500K per annum is probably a very conservative estimate especially for Donna who had quite a following, I would not be surprised if Public Disgrace and Wired Pussy grossed twice the $130K cited as a bad week for a site (Tomcat’s Fucking Machines was the site cited that week as grossing $130K) or more.
For the most part we are pretty civil. Other than the infamous one that started fights on here (I won’t mention his name because last time I did he posted a rant here and I don’t wish to encourage him to start posting again) the award for most caustic poster here would go to either Hop Sing or myself. I think I may have only been edited on here once or twice (I don’t recall any but I will allow for me missing one or two) in almost ten years and probably 800-1000 posts. I think Hop has a similar moderator edit ratio although he has far fewer posts and started out posting solely to needle me. There was a guy (I forgot his name but his English was poor) that was posting Rob Black blog posts verbatim (with his permission) and was moderator edited a couple of times due to the heinous content of Rob’s articles.
Funny thing, I clicked my old Rob Black bookmark tonight for the first time in at least a year, he is still making daily podcast videos and posting blog posts under the name Rob Zicari (his legal name) and working with a Katie Howard. A quick perusal did not bring up any porn-related material. I wonder if he even gets ten viewers a day, I think most of his viewership before was porn people tuning in to see who he would slander in the industry today.
For kinks OSHA appeal Final (post hearing) briefs were due 3/13/15
The findings were published in April
Two lawsuits filed in late April.
If you search ‘Cybernet’ on cal/OSHA they are still working with OSHA.
This glassdoor comment Ivy shared. “Mar 4, 2015-Poor leadership and decisions are made out of self preservation and fear.”
Anyone else wonder if the writer of that comment would try to ride out a cat 4/5 hurricane on a hotel balcony? Or shelter in place thru a wildfire? Lol
Just watched Todd Shapiro interview Voodoo regarding James Deen and the allegations…. Very interesting interview.
It was interesting. TY for mentioning it.
I’m not sure this is a hiatus for Deen with fixed location stakeholders. He is known for pushing the limits and it would be risky even if he adhered to some kind of retraining protocol which doesn’t exist.
His idea of an outside (third party) on-set monitoring isn’t feasible. It’s possible performers will start seeing set advocates on sets run by stakeholders with something to lose if a director they’re paying goes rogue. Set advocates will help performers as a go between but they’re loyalty is to the stakeholder not performers.
Some fixed location stakeholders are no doubt already looking into how to rent space and equipment to directors to transfer the production stakeholder liabilities.
The game is changing but the tube site piracy part isn’t cuz the biggest pirates are at the table making the rules up ditching copyright protections to keep money flowing into their pockets off your work…of course they’ll claim your work couldn’t be marketed without their tubes.
He packed a lot into the time he had, his take on agents was interesting.
@laura great suggestion, I enjoyed watching the interview. Personally I like voodoo, although I had never heard about him before a few weeks ago. I did admire seeing him defend various people, and he seemed like an overall good dude.
That being said. I did not like how he phrased Stoya’s decision to sell her footage with Deen. It came off a little victim blamey – and it’s my understanding that Stoya ruffled a few people’s feathers. So, my gut instinct was that Voodoo is not a loyal friend of Stoya’s. Don’t know if I can really read further into that without more evidence, but it seemed odd to me that he picked Stoya apart, when he didn’t do that to any others.
But it was good to see that his opinions meshed with what we’ve all been on Mike’s blog. Ok so on Voodoo’s 3 fixes:
1. Get rid of tube sites
2. Get rid of agencies
3. 3rd party advocates
So before I start with this takedown, not sure how many saw in the news that an anonymous rich person bought the Las Vegas review. Makes ya wonder with the avn xbiz buyout. Happenin so close together, ya think?
1. free sites aint go away and the quicker people in the industry realize that, the more useful and quick their fixes will be. people have to stop suggestions that, its just moronic and proves that you haven’t thought critically about your ideas.
2. Ok this is another dumb idea too. Fashion models have agencies. If your gonna keep calling porners models, well …. I dunno what to tell ya aint trying to tell nobobody how to run their business….but you know what some people ought to sit down and the connect the dots here.
3. sounds good in theory but just another useless pair of hands siphoning money. and what if the 3rd party advocate joins in on that kind of bohemian lifestyle and in cahoots well then another parasitic person yet again, gets paid for nothing.
I think a porn union is a great idea. I don’t think that’s gonna happen. I think the industry will do as little as possible, in making fixes for itself, because it likes the status quo. they will find people to spot light and everything will look brand new and shiny, because there will be a ton of people coming out saying what a great industry it is.
Ok, so really if you want to boil down to it. Illegal shit is happening. How do you fix that? I haven’t thought to hard about it yet, but i’m thinkin. Like I said before, porns a grey industry. All fixes would have to…grey.
@ivy
LOL That critical thinking thing is a bitch! Still nice he raised so many things as topics for consideration. It would be nice if agents decided who their client is (i.e. buyer/seller real estate agents) and/or made an effort to separate and define charges for the various services they offer.
The (model house) rent, transportation, cash advances (personal use/testing) stuff isn’t limited to porn. Same shit happens in hospitality, agriculture, miners, construction and more.
Unions are geared towards protecting ‘regular’ dues paying jobs …aka protecting their revenue source…which means they aren’t the best stewards or advocates for temporary or intermittent workers.
Stakeholders are damned if they do & damned if they don’t. If they do they’re still assumed to be a don’t while the don’ts are claiming they do. 🙂 Stakeholders who have been transitioning into compliance with the US employer role are going to be the force that brings those ducking & dodging into the grey area or out in the cold.
It’s not an overnight process. Andrew in 1992 changed construction in Florida where every effort to enforce standards was like spitting in the ocean. Pre storm price gouging and post storm scammer policies got written pretty quick some of it even helped when Katrina happened over ten years later and finally had a noticeable effect when Sandy hit 20 years after Andrew.